Tolkien and the 'other' N-word ;) - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Gothmog · 10-22-2005, 04:15 AM

Me, being from Sweden, had a hard time reading LotR in english for the first time. I was maybe around 12 years or something. Luckily, my father had used the same books when studying english at the university many years ago, so the most uncommon words were underlined and translated. Though I wouldn't made it through if I hadn't read them in swedish first. I also tried Silm in english back then, but gave up. Now I try to read only in english.

I learned a lot of words from Tolkien. I was too lazy to look up some words too, so I guessed out of the context. This gave me an approximate translation but not always the correct. A lot of the words I learned adjectives because of the wonderful descriptions of places and people featured in LotR.

One word that I remember is Alas. I thought it sounded real cool...

I don't recommend LotR to first time english readers though. The language isn't that easy and some words used can hardly be find in my dictionary...

And I didn't know the word niggard until today

Wish one could be better at english...

Kath · 10-22-2005, 09:48 AM

Oh wow probably hundreds! I read the books when I was about 8 and apparently I've had a pretty large vocabulary ever since so that's probably where all the new words came from. The writing and descriptions of people and places are just so beautiful, and its always easier to learn words that way, when you like them and want to know them.

I can't think of any particular words I learnt from reading the books though, I think it was more words in terms of context, if that makes any sense.

Cailín · 10-22-2005, 10:08 AM

Well, I learned a lot of Dutch words from the translation when my father read it to me as a little girl.

I'm currently reading the English version of Lord of the Rings for the very first time, but have not yet stumbled upon words I didn't know or could not figure out from the context. Had I read it before I was a full time Ye Olde English student, this would have been rather different - as Gothmog says, tis not easy reading Tolkien if you're not a native speaker.

When the movies first came out, I learned many words as well. I can remember wield (as in: 'we cannot wield it'), especially. I had no idea what it meant and for years have spelled it as wheeled, to the great amusement of all people more knowledgeable than me.

Angry Hill Troll · 10-22-2005, 10:26 AM

Those of you non-native speakers who have struggled through the books in English most definitely have my admiration! A lot of the vocabulary includes rather archaic words not commonly used or even understood today (as the 'niggard' example illustrates). I can imagine that it would be quite difficult for a non-native speaker to read, or for that matter, to do a good translation into another language.

Celebuial · 10-22-2005, 10:34 AM

Well I'm English and I read the books when I was about 12/13 and I still finished reading with a gargantuan list of new words...

Like 'bivouac'-I had never come across the word untill LotR.

I'm quite sure I had no idea what distance was represented by a furlong before either.

Hmmm... there's probably hundreds but I can't think of any more examples right now.

Formendacil · 10-22-2005, 10:44 AM

I can't say that I really learned a lot of new words from Tolkien- although I'm sure I picked up quite a few from context.

What I can say, though, is that Tolkien made a number of words a lot more prevalent in my everyday speech- and writing. I'm not even really sure which ones they are.

Certainly, a greater preponderance of more archaic words, and a fondness for older, British, spellings factored in a great deal.

*Query to the Mods: Should this perchance be in N&N?

Angry Hill Troll · 10-22-2005, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Formendacil

*Query to the Mods: Should this perchance be in N&N?

I wasn't completely sure where to post this myself, or what to title it... (I figured the title I chose would hopefully pique people's interest enough to look at the thread

)

I chose The Books because I think that Tolkien's writing style, and particularly his rich vocabulary including many older words, is one of the things which makes reading him so enjoyable. To me, the writing style itself, because it is somewhat different than that commonly used today, gets me into the feeling of being in a different place and time, and the archaic words give his world a medieval feel.

Perhaps that's the larger point, aside from the anecdote in the original post and the idea of Enriching Your Word Power with Tolkien, of the importance of Tolkien's writing style and in particular his vocabulary, on the readability and success of his books.

10-22-2005, 04:15 AM	#1
Gothmog Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Where I lay my head is home Posts: 421	Me, being from Sweden, had a hard time reading LotR in english for the first time. I was maybe around 12 years or something. Luckily, my father had used the same books when studying english at the university many years ago, so the most uncommon words were underlined and translated. Though I wouldn't made it through if I hadn't read them in swedish first. I also tried Silm in english back then, but gave up. Now I try to read only in english. I learned a lot of words from Tolkien. I was too lazy to look up some words too, so I guessed out of the context. This gave me an approximate translation but not always the correct. A lot of the words I learned adjectives because of the wonderful descriptions of places and people featured in LotR. One word that I remember is Alas. I thought it sounded real cool... I don't recommend LotR to first time english readers though. The language isn't that easy and some words used can hardly be find in my dictionary... And I didn't know the word niggard until today Wish one could be better at english... __________________ Three switched witches watch three Swatch watch switches. Which switched witch watch which Swatch watch switch? He who breaks a thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom ~Lurker...

10-22-2005, 09:48 AM	#2
Kath Everlasting Whiteness Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Perusing the laminated book of dreams Posts: 4,533	Oh wow probably hundreds! I read the books when I was about 8 and apparently I've had a pretty large vocabulary ever since so that's probably where all the new words came from. The writing and descriptions of people and places are just so beautiful, and its always easier to learn words that way, when you like them and want to know them. I can't think of any particular words I learnt from reading the books though, I think it was more words in terms of context, if that makes any sense. __________________ “If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.”

10-22-2005, 10:34 AM	#5
Celebuial Wight Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cardiff during term time/Leicester in the holl's Posts: 129	Well I'm English and I read the books when I was about 12/13 and I still finished reading with a gargantuan list of new words... Like 'bivouac'-I had never come across the word untill LotR. I'm quite sure I had no idea what distance was represented by a furlong before either. Hmmm... there's probably hundreds but I can't think of any more examples right now. __________________ Ú cilith ‘war. Ú men ‘war. Boe min mebi. Boe min bango.

10-22-2005, 10:44 AM	#6
Formendacil Dead Serious Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Perched on Thangorodrim's towers. Posts: 3,328	I can't say that I really learned a lot of new words from Tolkien- although I'm sure I picked up quite a few from context. What I can say, though, is that Tolkien made a number of words a lot more prevalent in my everyday speech- and writing. I'm not even really sure which ones they are. Certainly, a greater preponderance of more archaic words, and a fondness for older, British, spellings factored in a great deal. *Query to the Mods: Should this perchance be in N&N? __________________ I prefer history, true or feigned.

10-22-2005, 10:08 AM	#3
Cailín Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Lurking in the shadows. Posts: 711	Well, I learned a lot of Dutch words from the translation when my father read it to me as a little girl. I'm currently reading the English version of Lord of the Rings for the very first time, but have not yet stumbled upon words I didn't know or could not figure out from the context. Had I read it before I was a full time Ye Olde English student, this would have been rather different - as Gothmog says, tis not easy reading Tolkien if you're not a native speaker. When the movies first came out, I learned many words as well. I can remember wield (as in: 'we cannot wield it'), especially. I had no idea what it meant and for years have spelled it as wheeled, to the great amusement of all people more knowledgeable than me.

10-22-2005, 10:26 AM	#4
Angry Hill Troll Wight Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Ephel Duath Posts: 115	Those of you non-native speakers who have struggled through the books in English most definitely have my admiration! A lot of the vocabulary includes rather archaic words not commonly used or even understood today (as the 'niggard' example illustrates). I can imagine that it would be quite difficult for a non-native speaker to read, or for that matter, to do a good translation into another language.