The Ultimate Discourse About Gildor

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Gothmog

Inglorion=Son of Inglor. Inglor Felagund=Finrod Felagund. But we know that Finrod (=the "modern" Finrod from now on) left his beloved Amarië in the Undying Lands. If Gildor indeed was Finrod's son he would have been the rightful Highking of Noldor after Gil-Galad and taken over Nargothrond after his father, instead of Orodreth. Besides, no son of Finrod is ever mentioned. Could Amarie have given birth to a child after Finrod went to ME? Maybe, but how would Gildor get across the sea? I don't know of any elves arriving from the west, only sailing to the west (resurrected Glorfindel could be an exception).

Hmm... In the War of Wrath a host of Vanyar came to Middle-Earth with valar to fight Morgoth. If Gildor was born in Valinor (and was a son of Finrod and Amarië), maybe he came to Middle-Earth then and stayed there. Why would he come, I've no idea. But since Tolkien was a conservative, and Amarië is described just the 'beloved' of Finrod Felagund, so maybe he (Tolkien) wouldn't write them to have children because they weren't married.

And I'm not so sure about the Inglorion... Does it really mean someone's son? I know the -ion ending is an possessive (fg. Heren Istarion is the Brotherhood of wizards), and it would be logical that it means someone's son. Where did you anyway get that information, Gothmog?

[Gothmog]

You have a point about the Vanyar. But I doubt he was a son of Finrod anyway. As you said; why would he come to ME? And why haven't we heard of him if he's from such a noble family?

I might have been too quick to give out the info of Inglorion= son of Inglor. I read some discussions in the Gildor-subject before posting the previous post and there were the connection made. I thought it was on this thread, so I'm sorry. Careless of me. I'll try to find the thread were this was mentioned and quote it for you. I can't remember reading about it in any books, but the poster of that fact seemed certain. I'll be back...

[Gothmog]

Ok, I regret posting Inglorion=Son of Inglor as a fact. It should be considered one possible translation or theory. Here's some quotes and threads that shed some light on Gildor's name:

The name seems to suggest that Gildor is Finrod's son. There is however no mention of this in any genealogy. It does say that he is of the house of Finrod.

Strange, since the name makes him his direct son (since the "ion" is in this case meant in the biological sense).

Son of Inglor, early name for Felagund.

From Gildor Inglorion post #12 ~Pengolodh

Also, these threads tackle the problem of Inglorion:
Gildor son of Finrod

Gildor's origin

And a quote from the Encyklopedia of Arda concerning Inglorion:

The surname given to himself by the Elf Gildor when he met Frodo and his companions in Woody End in the Shire. Inglorion is a patronymic, and means 'son of Inglor'.

This interpretation means that Gildor was potentially a very important Elf indeed, because at the time these words were written, Inglor was the name of the Elf-lord called 'Finrod' in The Silmarillion, and the name Finrod belonged to his father (known in The Silmarillion as 'Finarfin'). This suggests that Gildor was of very noble descent, and was in fact the son of the founder of Nargothrond.

It's hard to tell whether or not this was Tolkien's intention when he chose the names. In The Silmarillion, it's stated categorically that Finrod (equivalent to Inglor in this context) had no wife or children, which seems to contradict Gildor's claim. This may simply be a case of Tolkien using an existing name without intending any particular significance (as he did, for example, with 'Glorfindel'), but it's possible to speculate that the name Inglorion carries much more meaning that might appear on the surface.

Thank you for correcting me Thinlomien! Does anyone know the correct translation of "ion"? Another question added to my infinite pile of why? who? when? what? where? ehhh? And please give your views of Gildor's origin.

[Thinlómien]

I know the -ion ending is an possessive (fg. Heren Istarion is the Brotherhood of wizards)

This is all I know. I think those who know more elvish than I will tell more about that (if they happen to get to view this thread).

[Alcarillo]

Does anyone know the correct translation of "ion"?

In Quenya, -ion is one of two plural genitive suffixes (the other is -ron). For example, macili ohtarion means warriors' swords. But this is not -ion's only meaning, as Ardalambion shows us:

SON yondo (male descendant), also short form yón (Yón referring to Jesus as "the Son" in the source); dative i yondon "to the Son" in VT43:36-37. Cf. also the suffix -ion, e.g. Finwion "son of Finwë". Vocative yonya *"my son", a contraction of *yondonya. (The forms vô, vondo "son" in LT2 are certainly obsolete, as are the notions there recorded that yondo meant "(great) grandson" and that yô-, yond- "son" was used only in poetry. But LT2 does confirm that -ion was "very common...in patronymics".) SON OF THE DARK (= Morgoth) morion -YO, VT44:12, 17, VT43:36-37, MR:217, LR:61, LT2:336, 344, LT1:260 cf. FS

So -ion can mean "son of". I hope that cleared up any confusion.

[Gothmog]

Yes, thank you. That cleared things up...and made others more difficult. Still no-one dares to share their views of Gildor? I expected some of the people here on the Downs engaging in a fierce debate of his origin and role in ME. Maybe this topic is already old and discussed to much...

[Rhod the Red]

I think Gildor and his company should have escorted the Hobbits all the way to Rivendell. It wouldn't have been much trouble to put off wandering in The Shire!

While the Hobbits had gone into Bree the Elves could have waited outside and then joined them once Strider led them out. Simple.