LotR -- Book 6 - Chapter 5 - The Steward and the King

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

I'm sorry Lal but I'm just not on board with you here -- again, the comparison you are making is between Eowyn and an imaginary masculine figure (a younger brother) so it seems to me that you are still trying to 'rescue' Eowyn by having her stand in for a man. The fact that it is "more horrific" to see a woman at war than a man (and I'm not even sure that I agree with this, but I get that you are playing off of popular stereotypes without wanting to agree with them yourself) still doesn't alter the fact that you are seeing Eowyn's move into war as an essentiall masculine move: i.e. that she does not -- as a woman -- belong there and thus it is terrible that she goes there. I know, I know, nobody "belongs" in a war, but it's still pretty clear in the text and in your argument that men are more "properly" the warriors when forced into it.

So my original quibble with the narrative stands: Eowyn begins by rebelling against her constrained role as a woman by violating the boundaries put up between female and male by going to war; but she ends by announcing that it was wrong of her to go to war because she is a woman, and thus needs to move back into the constrained role that she originally rebelled against. Don't get me wrong, though, her life is immeasurably better being married to Faramir than under the thumb of Grima!! I just wish the transition had been more complex and allowed Eowyn some way to integrate her two identities (female/healer/home and male/warrior/road) rather than reject the latter in favour of a better version of the former.

[davem]

Originally Posted by Fordim

but she ends by announcing that it was wrong of her to go to war because she is a woman, and thus needs to move back into the constrained role that she originally rebelled against.

I don't see she did that. She does say she will be a Shieldmaiden no longer, but will become a healer instead.

I just wish the transition had been more complex and allowed Eowyn some way to integrate her two identities (female/healer/home and male/warrior/road) rather than reject the latter in favour of a better version of the former.

Hmmm.

Apropos of absolutely nothing - I used to work with a man who was obsessed with the movie 'Aliens', to the extent that he had a recurring dream of Ripley 'all tooled up', as he put it.

(Wouldn't want anyone to think I'm suggesting that Fordim has an unhealthy obession with Miranda Otto in chainmail carrying a big sword, or anything )

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

Originally Posted by davem

(Wouldn't want anyone to think I'm suggesting that Fordim has an unhealthy obession with Miranda Otto in chainmail carrying a big sword, or anything )

It's not unhealthy!

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by davem

Apropos of absolutely nothing - I used to work with a man who was obsessed with the movie 'Aliens', to the extent that he had a recurring dream of Ripley 'all tooled up', as he put it.

(Wouldn't want anyone to think I'm suggesting that Fordim has an unhealthy obession with Miranda Otto in chainmail carrying a big sword, or anything )

Well, there are a fair few Tolkien artists who have depicted Eowyn as a muscled amazonian uber-babe with strategically ripped outfits, so it's not uncommon...

Originally Posted by Fordim

Eowyn begins by rebelling against her constrained role as a woman by violating the boundaries put up between female and male by going to war; but she ends by announcing that it was wrong of her to go to war because she is a woman, and thus needs to move back into the constrained role that she originally rebelled against. Don't get me wrong, though, her life is immeasurably better being married to Faramir than under the thumb of Grima!! I just wish the transition had been more complex and allowed Eowyn some way to integrate her two identities (female/healer/home and male/warrior/road) rather than reject the latter in favour of a better version of the former.

This depends on whether you think Eowyn was specifically rebelling against a feminine role laid down for her or not. Remember she was originally supposed to have been left as leader of Rohan while the King was away - a role which might have been expected to have gone to one of the Marshalls. And I also think that in her going to war, it was not necessarily an act of rebellion, but more of desperation. It was also in no small way inspired by Aragorn's leadership; she sought the glory which he represented in her eyes. It makes me think that Aragorn may have represented her animus in some way and have stirred this up.

The other point is that being a healer in Middle-earth is most definitely not a prescribed feminine role. The best healer in Middle-earth seems to be Elrond, and Aragorn himself is extremely skilled in the art.

[Alphaelin]

Lalwendë wrote:

It was also in no small way inspired by Aragorn's leadership; she sought the glory which he represented in her eyes. It makes me think that Aragorn may have represented her animus in some way and have stirred this up.

Excellent point, Lal! I hadn't taken it quite that far, but it makes sense to me. And I agree with your next sentence:

The other point is that being a healer in Middle-earth is most definitely not a prescribed feminine role. The best healer in Middle-earth seems to be Elrond, and Aragorn himself is extremely skilled in the art.

Not to mention the Chief Warden of the Houses of Healing.

I think the main reason that Eowyn's integration of her anima & animus are incomplete in LOTR is that much as some of us love her, she is one of JRRT's supporting characters, so he's not going to spend as much time fleshing her out as he does the Hobbits, for example, or Aragorn. LOTR is about the Quest, not a love story, and even the plotline of 'Aragorn and Arwen' takes a back seat to the main story. At least Eowyn has a quest of her own, not like poor Arwen, who is relegated to an appearance in Imladris, a reference in Lorien and then, hey presto! shows up in time to provide the reader with a wedding and the assumption that Aragorn will have heirs of his body to inherit the North and South Kingdoms. Pretty poor treatment of a High Elven princess and the Evenstar of her people!

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Alphaelin

I think the main reason that Eowyn's integration of her anima & animus are incomplete in LOTR is that much as some of us love her, she is one of JRRT's supporting characters, so he's not going to spend as much time fleshing her out as he does the Hobbits, for example, or Aragorn.

Yes! It's a shame that we do not get to see more of Eowyn, and Faramir for that matter, as both these characters are very complex with real hang-ups and problems, and strong inner personalities which struggle for expression. That's the impression I get, anyway. Whoever says that Tolkien's characters are flat and dull ought to be pointed to look at these two (and, for that matter, Gollum and Frodo).

One thing to remember about Eowyn is that she is a young woman, and Tolkien underlines this fact. She still seems to be learning about the ways of the world, and she still has her dreams. Those dreams have been damaged at an early age, and she is filled with anger by this. Perhaps an older woman may have taken this more stoically? Perhaps not? It might be worth discussing if Eowyn's age is relevant to her actions, as I have found that as I grow older myself, I feel differently about her in the light of my own experience.

[Lathriel]

As a fan of Eowyn and Faramir I also would have liked to read more about their relationship and how Faramir healed Eowyn.
I always shed a few tears because it is all so beautiful. The romance, the crowning, the fellowship as close to complete as it can be if only for a little while.
And Faramir...well, his relationship with Eowyn is so Romantic! If that happened to me I would swoon. (read the last part of Morte D'arthur, all the characters do there is swoon) Well maybe not but I would certainly be very touched.
I have no problem with Eowyn denouncing her former want to be a queen because I think it would not make her happy at all. She wanted to be queen before so that she wasn't helpless and she hoped it would bring her happiness. However, when Faramir came along she realized that that was no longer the caseand she also realized that she would never find true happiness with Aragorn. After Theoden's death and the other horrors she experienced I don't think it is a good idea to return to the battlefield. Although she has been healed she will always remember the trauma she went through during and after the Pelennor fields.