LotR1-FotR-Seq02

[Tuor of Gondolin]

"And now for an aside: Having recently attended my 20th (yes, 2-0) high school reunion, I was struck not by how some had changed but more so by one of my friends who hadn’t. We speak routinely electronically yet rarely have the time to meet, with families and all. Anyway, theories abound, and I’ve considered that she’s either been frozen in ice, has discovered either the elixir vitae or time travel, bears one of the Rings of Power or is a doppleganger."
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Or perhaps she's got a picture of herself in her bedroom that ages.

As for the topic: I find quite interesting the difference in speaker, and context,
of (in the movie) Frodo/Gandalf, and (in the extended dvd) Bilbo, discussing
events in the outside world. In the movie, Gandalf effectively brushes off
Frod's queries while basically the same observation in the dvd makes more
sense.

I also puzzled over the (nonbook) Bilbo comment about a Baggins at Bagend.
You could argue that Sam and Rosie were effectively "adopted", and
in the book lived with Frodo there, but in the movie they seem to have their
own cottage.

The children asking for fireworks (a great bit) could be explained as them hearing tales of Gandalf (perhaps by Bilbo). And I thought that the approving hobbit and his disapproving wife might be (and I think should have been) Lobelia and her
rather hen-picked husband- the actual dvd ones seemed too much a
characature.

And it's amazing the cake scene worked so well when it actually caught on
fire during the filming.

[Essex]

I also puzzled over the (nonbook) Bilbo comment about a Baggins at Bagend.

I think it's there to add to the melancholy at the End. There IS no Baggins to take it over, Frodo did not have an Heir (as Bilbo no doubt thought he would......)

PS Gandalf DID NOT let off fireworks before the Party. BLASPHEMY!!!!

[Boromir88]

I'd like to make some comments on Ian Holm who I think plays the part of Bilbo perfectly. I didn't like Ian too much in the '91 Hamlet (with Mel Gibson), I don't think he makes a very good Shakespearan actor...rushes through the lines. But, I loved him as Bilbo.

The part that sticks out the most is when he says "It's mine, I found it! It came to me! It's mine, my own, my PRECIOUS!" He sounds exactly like Gollum and I love this part, I think Ian nails it down.

What I like is we see that something is troubling Bilbo (certainly it's the Ring). He wants to get out of the Shire, and comments like he needs a long holiday, and he feels stretched like butter scraped over too much bread, are powerful lines and we see that something's just not right with Bilbo. The Extended Edition gives us even more clues with Frodo's comments like "He stays locked up all day," or their exchange at the party when Bilbo avoids the Sackville-Bagginses.

Then another quick thing is when Bilbo gives up the Ring. I think Jackson does this quite well. Isn't there something in the book where Gandalf explains that he had to use a lot of his strength to get Bilbo to give up the Ring? I know he does when Frodo puts the Ring on at Amon Hen, but I think there's also mention of him "intervening" when Bilbo gives up the Ring. Anyway, I think Jackson shows this well.

Bilbo sits there staring at the Ring, Gandalf kind of comes from the corner. Then Bilbo lets it go, and there's a loud thud on the floor. It makes it seem as if Gandalf is intervening and telepathically telling Bilbo to give up the Ring. Then once Bilbo leaves we get a sigh of relief from him, and he seems a lot more "light-hearted..." "I thought up of an ending for my book..."

Another small think I'd like to point out, several times Jackson uses Chapters from the book as lines in the movie. We hear one basically right off the bat when Gandalf arrives "A long expected Party." And shortly after Bilbo leaves there's "Riddles in the Dark" which I think is a chapter in The Hobbit...right? Anyway, I just thought that was neat.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Tuor of Gondolin

And I thought that the approving hobbit and his disapproving wife might be (and I think should have been) Lobelia and her rather hen-picked husband.

I believe that they credited as Everard and Mrs Proudfoot, both of whom are named in the cast list (see IMDb). As I recall, the husband is the same Hobbit who proudly declares "Proudfeet!" at Bilbo's party and who appears again in RotK, grimacing at the returning Hobbits.

[radagastly]

One of the first things I noticed is that, whereas, most scenes in most movies start with an establishing shot, usually exterior, this scene moves directly from the map (used to establish the location) to the interior of Bag End, directly into the cluttered Study of Bilbo as he begins writing his book. It's the words of that book that take us out into the Shire and the world of the Hobbits. And what a world it is. Green, green and more green. I believe I read or heard somewhere (possibly the director's comments, I'm not sure) that the set pieces for Hobbiton were constructed a year early so the flowers and crops coud be planted and have time to grow. I could be mistaken, but it certainly looks like it's been there a long time, an established community, not just a movie set.

One brief scene, added from the theatrical version, is of Bilbo fumbling around his study to find the ring. I believe it was Ian Holm, or possibly Peter Jackson, who was concerned that showing this scene so early on would establish Bilbo as a bit of a psycho, and show him in a negative light. I'm glad it was added for the extended edition, though. It carries over the obsessive words of Gollum, "My own, my love, my precious!" from the earlier scene in his cave, showing the ring as more than an ordinary band of gold. I wonder if it's clear to people who haven't read the book first that it's the ring that Bilbo is looking for? Probably, but I'd like to hear from those who saw the movie first, or rather the extended edition.

Another important addition from the theatrical version is the scene at the party when Bilbo and Frodo hide from the Sackville-Bagginses. It should have been in the theatrical version as it's the only scene one-on-one between Bilbo and Frodo before Rivendell. The only other scene with both of them is Bilbo's speech at the Birthday Party. This is a rather significant relationship to slight in such a way. I understand why it was done (that old mathom, pacing) but I would think P. J. could have fit in something between just the two of them, somewhere, before Bilbo left.

I'll add more later, as there's more I want to talk about, but time is currently an issue.

[The Saucepan Man]

One of the primary aspects, to my mind, of Tolkien's opening chapters in LotR is the establishment of the Shire as a comfortable, homely place, one that is worth saving, albeit one which is not without its faults. I also feel that he seeks to establish Hobbits in general (and the main characters in particular) as characters that we the readers can identify with, so that we can feel more involved in subsequent events, as portrayed from their perspective. Certainly, there is much in the Shire that readers can identify with, and this would have been even more true of English readers at the time Tolkien was writing - place-names, familiar landscapes, pubs, mail service etc. (See the Chapter-by-Chapter discussion of the early chapters for more detail.)

How well do you think that Jackson manages to achieve the same effect, if at all? Clearly, the Shire is portrayed as an idyllic place, although again not utterly perfect. But it seems to me to be a place that many in today's audiences will find difficult to identify with. Perhaps it is sufficient that it is presented as a desirable place to live. What do people think?

Also, do we get the feeling here that the Hobbits are to be the central characters in this tale? Are they the ones that we feel that we, as viewers, will be able to identify with the most? Are they the humble "everymen" of Tolkien's book travelling out of a safe, homely place into an unknown faery/heroic world where they will meet danger and find themselves ennobled by it? Or simply just some of the main characters that we will meet in the film. I get the sense that, since Aragorn, Faramir and some of the other principal characters are less "idealised" in the film than they are in the book, that Jackson was not so concerned to establish the Hobbits as the viewers' main point of reference.

Of the principal Hobbits in the film, I suppose that it is Sam who most closely takes on the role of providing "viewer perspective", but I wonder if that is because he is probably the film character who most closely resembles his book counterpart. In the book, Merry and Pippin, less the comedy characters of the film, take on part of this role too and the reader is therefore able more closely to identify with their development as characters. Do you think that their "slapstick" portrayal here (as alatar astutely puts it) contributes to or detracts from the more serious roles that they take on later in the film trilogy?

[Mithalwen]

Have I just been corrupted by watching the French and Saunders skit or does anyone else just think "Tellytubby land" during the beginning of this sequence? Maybe they wer trying too hard or maybe they wanted it to seem "story book" English countryside. Yes the Shire is a pleasant land but it seemed excessively idyllic, as if designed by Marie-Antoinette. Perhaps it was made extreme to greaten the contrast with the outside world.

I thought the opening exchange was a trifle forced but then I find Ian McKellen a bit mannered generally. He never quite disappears into the role as much as one might wish.

Ian Holm on the other hand - well he just is a hobbit.... he was just about flawless as Frodo in the radio version and he looks right as well.

I think the itself was done well and I think Merry and Pippin are introduced well. Although it is an "invention", it sets their characters well and especially the relationship between them.

[TheGreatElvenWarrior]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Another small think I'd like to point out, several times Jackson uses Chapters from the book as lines in the movie. We hear one basically right off the bat when Gandalf arrives "A long expected Party." And shortly after Bilbo leaves there's "Riddles in the Dark" which I think is a chapter in The Hobbit...right? Anyway, I just thought that was neat.

And "A Shortcut To Mushrooms"

[AbercrombieOfRohan]

PS Gandalf DID NOT let off fireworks before the Party. BLASPHEMY!!!!

That never seemed to really bother me, though I've heard numerous times from other fans that it destroyed their viewing of the Shire and blah blah. I thought it was quite cute, plus the face that Gandalf makes after setting of the fireworks is priceless. The kids in this scene are adorable too; it was very much the Shire for me.

Alright so going down the list of shots:

The bits with the map and Bilbo narrarating over them were good. I know it was a point of discussion amongst the crew of the movie who they should have narrarate the prologue and Bilbo's name came up. I'm glad they found a use for his narraration in the end.

During his whole monologue, various scenes of hobbits being hobbity are shown, on the whole I think these were ok, though there is a shot where two hobbits are about to kiss and one takes a cupcake from a passer-by. The girl hobbit seems extremely tall and it's always bugged me. Do you think that she's as tall as the rest of the hobbits and the male hobbit is just particularly short or that she's a giant among hobbits and is taller than all of them? I can't figure it out.

PJ discussed how important it was to him that they get the digital grading right in the Shire, so that it didn't look too sci-fi and fake or that it looked to brown and dead. I'm certainly glad that they didn't mess this up either, because I would have been disappointed. There is only one shot where it looks too bright, and that's the one where Gandalf's cart passes in front of a field of yellow flowers and there is rolling green hills in the background. The greens and the yellows in this shot were overly done I think, but perhaps this just stems from having watched the movies too many times.

The whole "You're late!" scene was superb and generally I dislike Elijah Woods performance of Frodo, but I find this scene tolerable, if only for Mckellen's amazing job as Gandalf in this scene. Also, Mckellen humming "The Road Goes Ever On and On" in the background, while Frodo reads a book in a field, sold me on the fact that PJ and crew were trying to make the movie closely resemble Tolkien's original work. I was hesitant, to say the least, to see these movies when they first came out, because I simply wasn't sure if they could match up to Tolkien, but this scene clinched it (at least if "it" stands for exceeded my expectations, but never quite got so far as to be JRRT).

Mckellen's interaction with Frodo in the cart when they talk about Bilbo and such, was very well done.

The shot of Gandalf's back as Bilbo opens the door is NOT Gandalf. Not sure if it's a sequencing thing, but this Gandalf doesn't look the like one that was riding in the cart. It may be his hair, his cloak, the color of his hair, cloak, hat etc. Or maybe it's just me.

Perhaps it's that Bilbo's hair in this scene looks exactly like my Memére's.

The party, with the music and the dancing was good. But, I have this to ask you, what is up with Frodo's dancing? It's certainly...unique and quite humourous. One can only hope that that is not how Tolkien envisioned Frodo's dancing. I really liked Merry, Pippin and the firework and I agree with Alatar about the portrayal of these scenes.

Has anyone else noticed that Thomas Robins, who plays Deagol in RotK makes a cameo as one of the hobbits watching Bilbo make his speech? Perhaps they are two people that look ridiculously similar and it's not him.

Upon re-watching this/these scene(s), my love of Ian Holm and Ian Mckellen is heightened. They are just terrific actors and absolutely perfect for the roles in which they were cast.

All in all, I love these scenes. These are the ones I watch when I have a limited amount of time and would like nothing better than sit there and drink tea, hence the lack of criticisms.