That good night: gift or punishment?

[mark12_30]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

...where in Tolkien's books is it stated that "death brings a man closer to Eru"? Eru is not named in LotR, so where is this idea developed? I had thought that Tolkien does not explicitly establish in his Legendarium where men go after death.

Aragorn states that beyond the circles of the world is more than memory. (appendix, Aragorn & Arwen)
Also, somewhere, Tolkien says that men will join with the Valar in the second music of the Ainur. Can't remember where I saw it, but that sounds to me like "closer to Eru". I admit it's an extrapolation.

(Edit) on googling, it's in the Sil; end of ch 1 of Quenta Silmarillion.

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by mark12_30

Aragorn states that beyond the circles of the world is more than memory. (appendix, Aragorn & Arwen)
Also, somewhere, Tolkien says that men will join with the Valar in the second music of the Ainur. Can't remember where I saw it, but that sounds to me like "closer to Eru". I admit it's an extrapolation.

(Edit) on googling, it's in the Sil; end of ch 1 of Quenta Silmarillion.

"more than memory" does seem to me very much an interpretation, as you say, Helen. And that Silm passage posits that greater music shall be played at something which could equally be construed as some sort of apocalypse or end of time rather than at death. Certainly "choirs of the Ainur and the Children of Illuvatar" does not suggest a personal rapproachment of the individual Child with Iluvatar after the Child's death. It's possible, of course, but such conjecture remains conjecture.

[mark12_30]

It would certainly be at the "End of Time" rather than at an individual's death. But I can hardly imagine Eru being absent as the second music of the Ainur is made. And making extrapolations which are within a normal Catholic's normal frame of reference hardly seems to me to be much of a stretch. The author was what he was.