LotR1-FotR-Seq06

[Lathriel]

Although the orc breeding isn't untill later I can't help but comment on it. That was actually the part that I liked the least of the whole FOTR movie. It just disturbed me. I thought it was completely uneccessary and the time they spent on that scene could have been put to better use later. (E.G showing more of Lothlorien)

[Mister Underhill]

Real life has been kicking my butt for the past few weeks. I'll just post a few quick thoughts to try to get caught up.

I've never delved deeply into it, but I'm pretty sure that the subject of orcish origins and reproductive mechanisms is not all that clear-cut. It's up there with Elvish ears and Bombadil and such -- though I don't think spawning from mudpits was ever a variation Tolkien contemplated. There's at least one old thread I recall, Orcish Fëar, which gets into the more arcane depths of the controversy. For a more primary source, see the "Myths Transformed" section of HoME X - Morgoth's Ring.

One thing that strikes me right off about this sequence is the Dutch angle at 1:08:55, when Saruman is "communing" with the palantir -- the odd angle is more typical of horror films or stylized Hitchcock thrillers. This is just down the road from the push-in/zoom-out shot (another Hitchcockian technique) on the road at 53:24. These sorts of shots hark back once again to PJ's horror roots, and signal again a more dreamlike, stylized approach rather than a more realistic, "historical" approach. I mention this because I recall from very early publicity -- like around the time the deal for the movies was first announced -- that Jackson often mentioned Braveheart as a point of inspiration for tone and style, specifically citing its "historical authority" and contrasting it with more fantastic movies like Willow and The Dark Crystal. For my money, Jackson could have tilted more towards a historical tone than he ultimately did, but I realize that's a matter of taste.

[Aiwendil]

Mister Underhill wrote:

I've never delved deeply into it, but I'm pretty sure that the subject of orcish origins and reproductive mechanisms is not all that clear-cut.

It's true that the matter of Orcish origins is an ambiguous one. The possible sources mentioned by Tolkien are, I believe, Maiar, Elves, Men, beasts, and various combinations thereof. But I think that he was consistent in holding that Orcish reproduction is just like human reproduction. After all, Maiar, Elves, Men, and beasts all reproduce the same way.

You bring up the interesting topic of Jackson's camera angles and movement. I agree that they are often rather stylized. I seem to recall that the Vertigo track/zoom is used more than once across the three movies - perhaps in RotK as they pass Minas Morgul? In any case, this is certainly something that distinguishes him from the more documentarian style of such people as Lucas and, perhaps, Spielberg. And now that I think about it, it may be one of the reasons I find the "tone" of the films to be wrong in many places.

[doug*platypus]

The scenes showing the creation of Saruman's army worked well for me. It was interesting to see the orcs at their work, burning, smelting and forging. However, it is a little gratuitous and unnecessary. All we need to know is that Saruman has an army, and also that he is mean to trees. Do we really need to see how said army is birthed and outfitted?

I too liked Saruman's fingers over the Palantír. It reminded me of Gandalf's line about Saruman's hands being like an extension of the claw of Mordor, cruel and cold.

I didn't like the portrayal of Saruman merely as a vassal of Sauron. I found book Saruman to be far more interesting, with his own desire for power and his independence from Mordor.

I get the feeling that there is some nagging doubt in the back of his mind, a thought of good that he must overcome.

That's interesting; I never thought of interpreting his brooding as such. I thought that he was simply thinking about metal and wheels in his unscrupulous mind. I shall watch a little more closely next time, and see if I can feel the inner conflict.

All in all, a fairly short and innocuous sequence. Not much else to say from this corner.