Snow angels

[Farael]

I don't think elves are any lighter than humans, just more graceful. Also, I'd believe they are less muscular and therefore lighter, but not because of some inherent quality, just because of their body build. I've been trying to run on snow, but I find that I step much heavier when I start runnning than when I'm walking... so I'm yet to figure out a way to gather up speed without falling through the top layer of snow. But I shall succeed, I still have at least four, probably five months of good snow to try my theory.

[Gothmog]

But if we assume that Legolas ability to walk on snow depends on his agility, his skill to walk softly, then he have to walk VERY softly to stop the laws of physic to do their work. It's true that you can walk on some snow (for example snow where the top layer has melted in the sun and later frozen again) but this was very new snow. And if it was "walkable" for Legolas due to his lesser muscle mass and softer steps, why couldn't the hobbits do the same thing? They must be much lighter than the men, maybe lighter then Legolas too. Plus they have large feet which makes the pressure against the surface they walk on less (P=F/A, pressure equals the force divided by the surface area).

I, too, believe that elves have a different body build than men, but I find it hard to believe that that would make such a big difference. I think it's a combination of the fact that they're more graceful and light and some sort of "gift" elves have. A passive skill which makes them tread this earth lighter than normal, mortal beings. Maybe because their not wholly of this world, they are in some minor way half-divine creatures, especially those elves that dwelt or dwelles in the West.

It's going to be an interesting winter. A wave of broken bones will spread thorugh the Downs when the snow comes for real with everybody trying different ways of getting enough speed to run on the surface of the snow

[Farael]

Good point, maybe I should try walking lightly rather than running... and we don't really know if the hobbits were able to do it, as they never tried.

Yet I guess the evidence is piling up towards some unnatural Elvish skill... maybe they are able to spread their weight around in such way as to take advantage of the whole surface area of their feet while humans and hobbits will lean heavily on the back or front end of their feet and therefore apply pressure concentrated on a single point rather than spread out?? But I'm just guessing here...

[Gothmog]

maybe they are able to spread their weight around in such way as to take advantage of the whole surface area of their feet while humans and hobbits will lean heavily on the back or front end of their feet and therefore apply pressure concentrated on a single point rather than spread out??

Possible, but I don't think that is enough. Take for example Legolas with the known weight of 60 kg. His feet measured around 0,1x0,3 m = 0,03 m2. Assuming that Midlle Earth has about the same gravity as our Earth, that would give us P=(60x10*)/0,03=20 000 N/m2. *= the gravity constant, which is about 9,8 but here 10 is used to simplify things as the ME-value is unknown. Now think of Boromir, who weighs 85 kg and has feet measures of 0,15x0,40. The pressure would be about 14 000 N/m2.

As you can see, the feet size is far more important that the weight and, assuming Boromir uses his whole foot, Boromir is actually less likely to go through the snow! To get a pressure as high as Legolas', his feet has to be smaller, for example 0,15x0,28 m.

***NOTE: All numbers regarding the characters weight is from their official hospital records that Elven Maids Weekly found when investigating the life of Legolas, se nr. 4, year 24 of the fourth age.***

***NOTE 2: If you find any errors in my calculations, I blame it all on being tired, not having done any physics in the last two years and Elven Maids Weekly for false information***

[Roa_Aoife]

I don't know how well this applies to Tolkien's Elves, but in general folklore and mythology regarding Elves, they are supposedly less substantial than humans, being more ethereal. This makes them very light, and they leave very little impression on the surfaces they come in contact with. The idea of Elves being small came from this- an Elf our size is light enough that one could easily lift him/her, and this was later recounted as them being lesser in staure rather than density.
In the more religious mindsets from the era of fairytales, Men are more dense becuase they were formed from dust, where as Elves were some form of fallen angel. In Tolkien speak, this places them closer to the Valar and the Ainur than Man.
In the same vein, I suppose Dwarves would be somewhat denser than Men.

So, from this, I would say it's not really something they do on purpose, or a skill of any kind, but a natural occurence. Could they make snow angels? Probably, but it would be very shallow. A bonus would be that they wouldn't ruin it by standing up.

EDIT: Also, the core of the Tolkien Elves have a core of flame, which would also make them less dense.

[Farael]

I know this is all but dead, yet today we got some snow so tomorrow I will probably try out walking in the snow and not sinking on it. For the time being I think I will try running on the snow starting on the snow itself, gathering speed outside the snow and then going in the snow, walking normaly in the snow and walking carefully in the snow. Anyone has more ideas of what I should try?

[Roa_Aoife]

Be less dense than the snow?