What's the Worst Thing Characters had to Face in Middle Earth?

[Farael]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

Do you think that Tolkien may have contrasted both Men to illustrate just how far those of Numenorean blood had fallen? Bearing in mind what Faramir says about Men:



Clearly the Gondorians are very proud of their Numenorean heritage and have had a tendency to set themselves socially apart from other men such as the Rohirrim. Yet when you see how Denethor behaves in comparison to how Theoden behaves, then you get a clear picture that the descendants of Numenor are perhaps overly proud.

It's telling that Denethor's own son recognises that the two races of men are not so different; it's also very telling that Faramir does not choose a bride from Gondor but one from Rohan. So there is yet another thing that one of the characters has to face - Faramir facing up to the fact that despite what his learning has told him, in reality Men are not all that different from one another, that it is deeds which count, not just bloodlines.

You do have a GREAT point in there, all along Theoden is more noble than Denethor. But you should also consider that Aragorn is also Numenorean and he is just as noble as Theoden if not even more so. Still, I guess I'm playing a bit of devil's advocate as I do agree with what you said.

On the other hand, I'm not exactly sure if by Faramir marrying Eowyn Tolkien meant to show that the two peoples were not as different. I think he states it with his own words that the people of Gondor had declined and Rohan had learned from Gondor yet both Faramir and Eowyn were 'special' for their own people. Faramir was a gifted leader, a man of wisedom and strenght while Eowyn was also wise and strong in her way. Plus she was definetly different from other women in that she wanted to ride to the battle instead of being content with staying home and waiting.

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

Or is it that the Ring works on the personality/characteristics of each bearer? Bilbo gains the Ring innocently and uses it relatively innocently to hide from the Sackville-Bagginsesand other intrusive Hobbits. Both Bilbo and Sam seem quite robust Hobbits psychologically. Is Frodo different? It's something that might be worth looking at. Isildur is proud of his heritage and the Ring seems to work on this side of his personality, something which is echoed in Boromir many years later. And then Gollum, who kills to get the Ring, uses it to sneak on his kin and eventually to retreat even further into solitude. So, what is it about Frodo that the Ring works on? His sense of duty? Was this strong before he was left the Ring?

In terms of facing up to things, it seems to me that one of the Ring's effects was to work on their characters, possibly to grab hold of those aspects that they did not want to face up to, or even onto their worst fears.

Possibly. But I think it's the objectives they had for the ring and the way they parted with it that affected them.

Gollum had the ring for hunting and fishing. He wanted the ring for himself and when he lost it he became obsessed with it. He obviously did not cope well.

Bilbo found the ring innocently and used it just as innocently (as you said) and he parts with it trusting the words of Gandalf who was a figure he respected. Still it was not easy for Bilbo to leave the ring and we still see him craving it somewhat.

Neither Bilbo or Gollum really knew what the ring really was, so I would think that the way they parted with it had an influence with the way they coped with its loss. Although we have to agree that Gollum was a murderer even before he got the ring (as he killed his friend, I cant remember his name right now) and the ring accentuated this, while Bilbo was a simple, nice hobbit and the ring did not have much of a negative effect over him.

Sam used the ring for the sole purpose of saving Frodo. That was all he cared about, and gave up the ring afterwards so the ring both had little time to act on him and also, maybe his simplemindedness protected him(after all, he never wanted anything for himself, he just wanted to help Frodo whom he admired)

And then we have Frodo
He is a smart guy (hobbit rather) and he is aware of the whole situation regarding the ring, both its dark past and the power it contains. Also, he was wounded by the Nazghul and it's said that he never completely recovers from that wound. We should take that into account because if he had not been healed, he would have became a spectre like the Nazghul (but of lesser strenght) and it's said that he had slightly undergone that transformation. Now, I might be mistaken but the Ring is the lord of the Nazghul, they answer to Sauron because he was the one whose power laid on The Ring yet I think that if someone else (someone like Gandalf or Galadriel) had put on the ring, the Nazghul would have responded to him (or her).
What's my point with this? if Frodo had became albeit not completely, a spectre of the Ring, it's possible to say that the ring itself would have a bigger influence over Frodo. If Frodo had used the ring for his own benefit, The Ring may have helped him, as Frodo would have been the new "Dark Lord" and the ring belongs to the dark lord (ok, I know Frodo was not strong enough to take Sauron's place, but if it had been possible...) Yet as Frodo tries to destroy the Ring, the Ring tries to oppose Frodo. And besides becoming heavier there's nothing it can do in the physical world yet he can affect Frodo in the psychological 'world'.

I hope that was somewhat clear, the Ring DOES act with regard of each individual's personality yet it also has a bit of a will of its own.