What if??

[Tuor of Gondolin]

On a related point about isildur claiming the
Ring as weregild, did Gilgalad have descendents?
And if so, wouldn't they have had an equal claim
to the Ring- and so to have argued to destroy it?

[bilbo_baggins]

Gil-galad's descendants would not have had as close a personal cliam to the ring, Tuor because Isildur himself cut the Ring from Sauron's hand. You might argue that elves are wiser than humans, and therefore should control the all-powerful ring, but then again, they themselves are susceptible to the Ringlust (Galadriel's struggle), and are just as vulnerable as Men. In my opinion then, Isildur has the highest claim for the ring; his own descendant (Aragorn) has no more trouble than Galadriel in not taking the Ring.

I think that the Ring would not affect Smaug as much as you might think. After all, Smaug's confrontations with Bilbo proved that he could not easily be wiled and fooled. That and his inherent magical powers would combine to form his own personal magic mental block. That would also prevent Sauron from controlling him. Dragons were just too darn powerful.

[Farael]

Originally Posted by bilbo_baggins

I think that the Ring would not affect Smaug as much as you might think. After all, Smaug's confrontations with Bilbo proved that he could not easily be wiled and fooled

I'm not sure that Bilbo would have been able to fool the Witch King, Galadriel, even Argorn.... They are all very smart and mentally strong people yet they did suffer ringlust.

[bilbo_baggins]

Originally Posted by Farael

I'm not sure that Bilbo would have been able to fool the Witch King, Galadriel, even Argorn.... They are all very smart and mentally strong people yet they did suffer ringlust.

But the Hobbits had inherent sneaking abilities. In his forward "On Hobbits" Tolkien describes how they can hide themselves, be unseen, and be quieter than air. Is this not fooling capabilities? Yet Smaug knew that Bilbo was there.

[Farael]

Originally Posted by bilbo_baggins

But the Hobbits had inherent sneaking abilities. In his forward "On Hobbits" Tolkien describes how they can hide themselves, be unseen, and be quieter than air. Is this not fooling capabilities? Yet Smaug knew that Bilbo was there.

I think that refers to the Hobbits being able to sneak making very little sound, a physical skill yet creatures like Smaug, The Witch King, Galadriel or Tom Bombadil had a different kind of 'perception'... for example, Tom can see Frodo even when he's wearing the ring, so we see that they see the world differently. I don't think it's the same to be able to sneak by than to have a strong mental precense

[bilbo_baggins]

Will we know have to get into a discussion of what Tom Bombadil is? Tom is the eternal LoTR exception in my mind. Dragons were actually created by Morgoth. How could they be even as powerful?

[Farael]

Originally Posted by bilbo_baggins

Will we know have to get into a discussion of what Tom Bombadil is? Tom is the eternal LoTR exception in my mind. Dragons were actually created by Morgoth. How could they be even as powerful?

Morgoth could not create, only corrupt things. So I guess either dragons already existed and he used them for his own means or that there were things like dragons which he perverted into things like Smaug.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Tuor of Gondolin

On a related point about Isildur claiming the Ring as weregild, did Gilgalad have descendents?

Regardless of weregild claims, the point is moot since Gil-galad left no known offspring, and seems to have been single all of his life. For that reason, after his death, Elrond was the de facto Seventh High King of the Noldor- although the decimation and migration of the Noldor that occurred as a result of the War of the Last Alliance meant that actually claiming any such title would have been a rather silly thing to do...