LotR1-FotR-Seq08

[Essex]

sorry been a bit tardy with my review. first of all

Originally Posted by alatar

He's gone from the whiny Frodo to the gasping Frodo, and this does not garner any sympathy from me.

he does from me. ever since his 'what must I do' line I've liked movie Frodo. And you try not to whine if you've got some balck riders on your tail!

Regardless, the inclusion of the trolls was another gem.

yes, another example of the hard work and LOVE the filmmakers put into this story

The wraiths are close by, as we can hear their calls, and Frodo preemptively shudders before they wail. But what's to fear? Our merry group has torches and swords, and that sent five of the Black Riders packing before.

Hang on - that's unfair. the book guys lasted 12 DAYS in the wilderness after the attack before Glorfindel found them. So Jackson is not making ANY CHNAGE WHATSOEVER to the inability of the ringwraiths to track them down. Book Aragorn DID attack them with fire in the book as well, it's just that we do not SEE it in the book - Frodo sees the start of aragorn's attack before he faints.

I think we need to also remember the source material the scriptwriters worked from before we critique the films. The only difference being that 1/ frodo stabbed the WK with his blade (but this made no difference) and 2/ he shouted elbereth githoniel which (in book terms) obviusly DID. But as I stated before, we couldn;t really see this in the movie (ie the ringwraiths running off cos he shouted a weird name out!)

Until I read what she says. "I am Arwen. I have come to help you." Ouch! What prose!

What, instead of the original ''Hail, and well met at last!'' as Glorfindel says in the book. Would have this have worked in the Movie? Alas, I think not.

As Strider munches on some 'foil, Arwen examines Frodo's wound. No mention about why the wound is bad, and also no clue regarding the healing properties of athelas. So why include it?

- as a fleeting nod of the cap to the houses of healing scene - when I saw this in the first film, I then realised we wouldn't be getting a house of healing scene in movie 3.

Arwen updates us as to what's happening. Five wraiths behind, four elsewhere and she's been looking for them for two days. How did she and Elrond know?

Could we have all this prose in explaining what happened in these fast moving scenes - would have all of the following worked? I think not....

'Elrond received news that troubled him. Some of my kindred, journeying in your land beyond the Baranduin, learned that things were amiss, and sent messages as swiftly as they could. They said that the Nine were abroad, and that you were astray bearing a great burden without guidance, for Gandalf had not returned. There are few even in Rivendell that can ride openly against the Nine; but such as there were, Elrond sent out north, west, and south. It was thought that you might turn far aside to avoid pursuit, and become lost in the Wilderness.
'It was my lot to take the Road, and I came to the Bridge of Mitheithel, and left a token there, nigh on seven days ago. Three of the servants of Sauron were upon the Bridge, but they withdrew and I pursued them westward. I came also upon two others, but they turned away southward. Since then I have searched for your trail. Two days ago I found it, and followed it over the Bridge; and today I marked where you descended from the hills again. But come! There is no time for further news. Since you are here we must risk the peril of the Road and go. There are five behind us, and when they find your trail upon the Road they will ride after us like the wind. And they are not all. Where the other four may be, I do not know. I fear that we may find the Ford is already held against us.'

Now, I like Arwen as the heroine, but this diminishes Frodo to mere baggage.

Fair point. - I admit this DOES diminish his character at the Fords.

re your problems with the nazgul entering and fording the river. It was an elvish river remember, and Tolkien has stated before (but not explained) that they have a 'fear' of this water, don't they?

But having Glorfindel/Arwen, Aragorn and the three hobbits bearing torches, keeping the wraiths in the water would have made more sense and be closer to the books, but whatever. At least the horse-headed waves, whether created by Gandalf or a computer, were included.

yes, but we couldn't have this and a great 'car chase' scene as you put it before......

Now, the scene was okay and all, but as later we see more of Saruman's powers (fireball, lightning, storm), I can only assume that he meant for Gandalf to escape.

I don't think Saurman would attack the Lord of the Eagles. Would you?

A farsighted elf, that, as he made the balcony by which Frodo stands to be hobbit height. I did not catch this in the movie nor in the image in some news magazine that someone brought to my attention. Think that PJ even jokes about the obvious gaffe. The height of the rail would just be right for tripping wine-saturated elves and sending them to the valley floor.

Or perhaps some hobbit size rooms from the last time Bilbo was there 77 years before, and from the 17 years he's spent there since the party?

Next we see what became of that old oddity Bilbo. My, he has aged. Now it's only been just over an hour in reel time, but as I'm not sure how long it's been in ME time, I can only guess that Bilbo shouldn't be as old looking as he is now. His statement that age finally caught up with him makes me believe that it was a short time. The Ring gives long life, but bereft of it I guess one does not simply continue on normally, but must then become the age that one actually is.

But how then is Gollum still walking?

again, an issue with the original text, not the movie.....

Sam begins packing, as he too is ready to return to the safety and calm of the Shire. He feels that he got Frodo and the Ring to where others would take over the burden, and now it was time to go. We get a few minutes of home, home, home, and anyone watching movies just knows that the hobbits have just cursed themselves to more adventure.

- this is exactly why it was added - to add credence to Frodo's feelings when he claimed the Quest at the Council.....

Saruman is coming for the Ring. The Ringwraiths of Sauron failed, yet the Uruks will triumph?

book not movie issue again!

First, Boromir's a warrior, and so I would assume that he merely looking at a blade would know if it were sharp.

I believe this is put in at a request of Bean so he could mention his character's name 'Sharp' from his other main work......no joke.

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Boromir

I'm not really bothered by Arwen replacing Glorfindel. In fact, I'm not really bothered by many of the inserted Arwen scenes through the movies. I think it was important for Jackson to establish a "love background/story" between Arwen and Aragorn, and sort of intersplice in the movies.

My major complaint is not with the insertion of Arwen into the story, it is the over insertion of her throughout the story and this is a perfect example. Why not quickly introduce Glorfindel as an Elf-Lord and given him a quick spot at the Council of Elrond? Arwen is no warrior and she doesn't ride to adventure...she is no Eowyn. It wouldn't have taken longer. I really would have liked them to stay true to the book in this instance and have Glorfindel put Frodo on his horse and Frodo cross the Fords alone. This would also have saved us from the wretched "she-elf" line. Then quickly introdcue Arwen during Rivendell and show her love for Aragorn there.

One other question. Why does Aragorn shun his past? I don't recall him being ashamed of being Isildur's heir in the book, in fact he seemed to be rather proud of the fact. But here (I think in this sequence) we get Arwen saying "You are Isildur's heir, not Isildur himself. Why?

[Boromir88]

I believe this is put in at a request of Bean so he could mention his character's name 'Sharp' from his other main work......no joke.

I wouldn't doubt it, Bean did play in a rather extensive series called "Sharpes..._____" (insert multiple names), where he played a man name Richard Sharpe.

I don't doubt it, because we see in TTT EE when Saruman falls down and is impaled on a wheel of spikes, this is a reference back to Lee's movie days as Dracula...when he is impaled on a wheel of spikes. So, I wouldn't doubt if this is the same case with Bean.

[Essex]

Originally Posted by mormegil

One other question. Why does Aragorn shun his past? I don't recall him being ashamed of being Isildur's heir in the book, in fact he seemed to be rather proud of the fact. But here (I think in this sequence) we get Arwen saying "You are Isildur's heir, not Isildur himself. Why?

different context, I admit, but book Aragorn himself says it at the Council of Elrond

I am but the heir of Isildur, not Isildur himself.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

"I am but the heir of Isildur, not Isildur himself."

But in a vastly different context. PJ casts Isildur
negatively, in the book Aragorn implies Isildur is
above him in greatness of ability.

I believe PJ and friends rationale was the
infamous "story arc."