Man to Man in Araman!!!!!

[Falagar]

The grief for his father, whom he loved more than anyone else ever have.

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 1:51 PM January 13, 2004: Message edited by: Falagar ]

[doug*platypus]

In Tolkien's world, children are quite often like their parents. Okay, so that's an enormous generalisation... feel free to prove me wrong. However, I don't think that Finrod and Galadriel (not too sure about the others) could have been sired by a "wimp".

True, he was a pretty wee thing, and not as valiant as Fingolfin or as skilled as Fëanor, but who was? Talk about tough competition! Fëanor told Morgoth (you know, the big Dark Lord, most powerful being in Eä) to get the **** off his property, and Fingolfin took a sword to him! How could anyone possibly compare with those guys? But what Finarfin did inherit from Finwë was loyalty and moral fibre.

The text doesn't appear to show him favourably. He is said to turn back out of grief, and bitterness to the House of Fëanor. The emphasis appears to be on the grief (because it is mentioned first), and this paints a picture in our mind of a wussy boy. If his anger towards Fëanor was emphasised, and if a confrontation occurred between Finarfin and his half-brother, he would not be judged a wimp by anybody. Perhaps the fact that we judge him so harshly tells us more about ourselves than about him?

Finarfin stood up against peer pressure and did what he thought was the right thing. Not very wimpy. Also, he may have been most suited of the brothers to a life in the Blessed Realm. No doubt because he seemed to lack their warlike inclinations.

[Maédhros]

Let's revise the events before and after the Kinslaying at Alqualondë. When Fëanor returned from Formenos after the death of his father Finwë, and lead the rebellion in Tirion, most of the Ñoldor were eager to be gone. There were those who didn't want to go but wouldn't leave their people.
The divided host of the Ñoldor went eastward from Tirion to Alqualondë, with Fëanor's host in front, followed by that of Fingolfin's and at last there was Finarfin. After the Kinslaying, in which the host of Fëanor and some of Fingolfin took part, they headed north towards Araman.
Finarfin at that time had seen or passed by Alqualondë to see the results of the battle, and knowing what had happened there, he followed the other Ñoldorian hosts northward to Araman.
If Finarfin is as some people on this thread have said that he had superior moral fiber, why did he had to wait for the Doom of Mandos spoken by either Námo or a messanger from the Valar to turn back. Why didn't his superior moral fiber allowed him to know before a warning from the Valar that the Kinslaying was wrong and that he should turn back towards Valinórë.

Finarfin stood up against peer pressure and did what he thought was the right thing. Not very wimpy. Also, he may have been most suited of the brothers to a life in the Blessed Realm. No doubt because he seemed to lack their warlike inclinations.

He stood up against peer pressure after the Doom of Mandos was uttered. Were was his high moral fiber before that?

Another thought that comes to my mind, is that I have seen a person post at another thread that Finarfin's son, Finrod Felagund took part in the Kisnslaying at Alqualondë. It is my impression after reading the Published Silmarillion and several others HoME books that it is not so. I asked that person to post where did he get that information regarding Finrod Felagund that I had missed, but he/she had not done so in that thread. Perhaps it could be done in this one?

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I fail to see why, because he obeyed the Valar, Finarfin is a wimp.

[Maédhros]

I fail to see why, because he obeyed the Valar, Finarfin is a wimp.

A person of high moral character would not have needed a warning from the Valar to do the right thing.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Now, to refute you.

Let's analyse the events. Finarfin sees Kinslaying. He could have reacted in two ways.

1. Leave the host to that maniac who just killed his kin. Think what more Fëanor could do in Middle-earth, with himself as king.

Soldier: Our air wing has been lost.
Fëanor: I don't care! Anyone who doesn't attack is a coward!
Soldier (mumbling): Great...

Yes, I know there is no air wing in Arda during that time, but you can substitute anything - a tactician, the archery backup, or a cavalry assault force.

With his depraved state of mind, he could annihilate the entirety of the Noldor! With only Fingolfin to stop him! I don't think he could have lived with that, therefore he did #2...

2. Stay with that maniac in hopes of using your cool, calm, collected mindset to push possibly debilitating actions slightly.

If all else fails, use overwhelming majority to push actions. Fëanor and his sons aren't scared of just a majority. Their handful ravaged the Havens of Sirion. So you'll need to overwhelm them, in case something goes...wrong.

Cute understatement.

Then, the Doom of Mandos. Great. Now, his only reason to go on is zapped. No matter what he and his brother can do, tell, or sing to Fëanor, all will go wrong. Why waste all your people in a hopeless quest?

He went back. Not a wimpy decision.

[Maédhros]

1. Leave the host to that maniac who just killed his kin. Think what more Fëanor could do in Middle-earth, with himself as king.

Remember that, although Fëanor had claimed the kingship of the Ñoldor, the majority of them still held Fingolfin as their king and if you read the Shibboleth of Fëanor

Fingolfin had prefixed the name Finwë to Ñolofinwë before the Exiles reached Middle-earth. This was in pursuance of his claim to be the chieftain of all the Ñoldor after the death of Finwë, and so enraged Fëanor that it was no doubt one of the reasons for his treachery in abandoning Fingolfin and stealing away with all the ships.

If both of the hosts of the Ñoldor had reached ME at the same time, the majority of them would have taken Fingolfin as their king.

Stay with that maniac in hopes of using your cool, calm, collected mindset to push possibly debilitating actions slightly.

That was actually the mindset of Fingon urging his father to follow the host. The thing is that Fingolfin had to follow Fëanor, for he had given his word to him before.

Then, the Doom of Mandos. Great. Now, his only reason to go on is zapped. No matter what he and his brother can do, tell, or sing to Fëanor, all will go wrong. Why waste all your people in a hopeless quest?

This doesn't adds up. Finarfin knew before that that it was a hopeless quest.
From the Published Silmarillion

But even as the trumpet sang and Fëanor issued from the gates of Tirion a messenger came at last from Manwë, saying: 'Against the folly of Fëanor shall be set my counsel only. Go not forth! For the hour is evil, and your road leads to sorrow that ye do not foresee. No aid will the Valar lend you in this quest; but neither will they hinder you; for this ye shall know: as ye came hither freely, freely shall ye depart. But thou Fëanor Finwë's son, by thine oath art exiled. The lies of Melkor thou shalt unlearn in bitterness. Vala he is, thou saist Then thou hast sworn in vain, for none of the Valar canst thou overcome now or ever within the halls of Eä, not though Eru whom thou namest had made thee thrice greater than thou art.'

At that time, before the Doom of Mandos, the Ñoldor knew that no matter what they did, they could not overcome Morgoth. I want to make a clarification. I did not say that going back was a wimpy decision on the part of Finarfin, I said that it was wimpy of him to go back after the Doom of Mandos was uttered. Lets see the facts:

1. Finarfin knew that the quest of the Ñoldor to beat Morgoth was hopeless.
2. He knew that before the kinslaying, to follow Fëanor was not a good thing.
3. He knew that the Kinslaying at Alqualondë was a horrible act.
4. Finarfin had passed from Alqualondë to the Wastes of Araman following Fëanor.

Now the questions that I make is simple. If Finarfin had this knowledge in advance, why couldn't he make the right decision by himself that he should have turned back inmediately after the Kinslaying of Alqualondë?
To me, he had not the inner strenght to go back by himself, he needed the waring of the Valar to do that.
What if the Doom of the Valar had been uttered after the Ñoldor had reached ME? Too late Finarfin.