Gandalf blew Galadriel's cover?! - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Formendacil · 12-22-2005, 04:48 PM

I highly doubt if Sauron would have been surprised to find a Ring in Lothlorien. The same goes for Rivendell. Both realms had a supernatural aura and were ruled by mighty, powerful Elves who had been around in Celebrimbor's time. It was probably only Gandalf's Ring that was truly hidden from Sauron.

Farael · 12-23-2005, 10:05 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't one (or two even) of the Three make Sauron even more powerful? I do agree (even though I had not thought of it before until it was mentioned here) that he knew there was a Ring in Rivendell and another in Lorien. I don't know exactly how strong both cities were, but why didn't he attack them and recover at least two of the three? then he'd be even mightyer and he might have been able to crush Gondor in spite of Aragorn and Gandalf's best efforts.

obloquy · 12-25-2005, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Farael

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't one (or two even) of the Three make Sauron even more powerful? I do agree (even though I had not thought of it before until it was mentioned here) that he knew there was a Ring in Rivendell and another in Lorien. I don't know exactly how strong both cities were, but why didn't he attack them and recover at least two of the three? then he'd be even mightyer and he might have been able to crush Gondor in spite of Aragorn and Gandalf's best efforts.

Having these rings wouldn't have benefited Sauron directly; his purpose for them was to enslave the Elves who wore them, but that didn't go according to plan. The powers of the Three were nothing Sauron would really have had any use for, and he probably wouldn't have been able to use them since these were Elven creations. On the other hand, if Sauron had them, nobody else would. I have a feeling that this is the reason he went about collecting all the rings besides the nine: his original purpose for them had failed and they were granting their bearers powers he would rather they didn't have.

Farael · 12-25-2005, 02:30 AM

I see... for some reason I thought that Sauron could wear the rings and it'd have somewhat of a cummulative effect. Perhaps not the three for they were not made for warfare and so Sauron wouldn't have used them much... but maybe the Nine and the seven? it'd be a really heavy hand to lift with all those rings on

but if they do have a cummulative effect.....

tar-ancalime · 12-25-2005, 08:26 PM

Quote:

I don't know exactly how strong both cities were, but why didn't he attack them and recover at least two of the three?

It has always been my understanding that it was the power of the Rings that kept Rivendell and Lorien safe. Neither could have withstood a determined onslaught (as is pointed out at the Council when it is suggested that the One Ring be kept "safe" in Rivendell), but with the Rings' protection both could have resisted for long enough to draw Sauron's resources away from any other battle he wished to fight. It wouldn't have been in his best interest to attack Rivendell or Lorien (thus facing the power that, as Formendacil points out, he surely knew was there) without his One Ring.

Regaining the One had to be his focus.

Could it be that the reason why Elrond and Galadriel talked about the fading of the Three if Sauron should regain the One was that with the One he'd be better equipped to attack them? Perhaps the power of the Three would not be diminished at all, but Sauron's power would be so increased that he could attack them with relative impunity.

I agree that the locations of at least Nenya and Vilya were at best open secrets, at least among those who cared to study such things. I would imagine also that Sauron had a pretty good idea of Narya's whereabouts--even if he first assumed it was with Cirdan in the Havens, his second guess would be likely correct, as there were not so many very powerful figures opposing him.

03-21-2006, 09:22 AM

I remember reading in the Return of the King, that a power dwelt in Lothlorien that Sauron could not overcome unless he himself were to go there. I assume that that power is Nenya on the hand of Galadriel. So the Three Rings had a power of 'holiness' or preservation. The opposite of Sauron which is to destroy.

I think that the reason the One Ring was not hidden in either Rivendell or Lothlorien is answered by Elrond, "they would become islands under siege". Islands under siege explains that all else would be cut off from them; the water, the air, and such. Eventually they would be without the elements and die.

My difficulty lies in Narya. If Vilya and Nenya both prove to be very powerful in protecting realms, what realm does Narya protect? It seems as if it is a traveling realm. Also, if the Three Rings magnify the powers of the users, wouldn't Gandalf's powers be magnified? Or was Narya simply given to Gandalf to be kept safe? Anthony

obloquy · 03-21-2006, 10:30 AM

I don't know if the power to protect a 'realm' was an inherent effect of the Three so much as an enhancing of the will of their keepers. Elrond's duty as master of his house was to protect it from evil, and his ring complemented that effort; likewise for Galadriel. Narya may have had a similar effect while in Cirdan's possession. However, Tolkien tells us somewhere that Narya's power was in motivating hearts and inciting action. But he also tells us that that was Olorin's specialty back in Aman, which suggests that the actual power of one of the Three depended even more strictly on the intentions of its bearer.

12-22-2005, 04:48 PM	#1
Formendacil Dead Serious Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Perched on Thangorodrim's towers. Posts: 3,328	I highly doubt if Sauron would have been surprised to find a Ring in Lothlorien. The same goes for Rivendell. Both realms had a supernatural aura and were ruled by mighty, powerful Elves who had been around in Celebrimbor's time. It was probably only Gandalf's Ring that was truly hidden from Sauron. __________________ I prefer history, true or feigned.

03-21-2006, 09:22 AM	#6
elvenprince Guest Posts: n/a	The Power of the Three I remember reading in the Return of the King, that a power dwelt in Lothlorien that Sauron could not overcome unless he himself were to go there. I assume that that power is Nenya on the hand of Galadriel. So the Three Rings had a power of 'holiness' or preservation. The opposite of Sauron which is to destroy. I think that the reason the One Ring was not hidden in either Rivendell or Lothlorien is answered by Elrond, "they would become islands under siege". Islands under siege explains that all else would be cut off from them; the water, the air, and such. Eventually they would be without the elements and die. My difficulty lies in Narya. If Vilya and Nenya both prove to be very powerful in protecting realms, what realm does Narya protect? It seems as if it is a traveling realm. Also, if the Three Rings magnify the powers of the users, wouldn't Gandalf's powers be magnified? Or was Narya simply given to Gandalf to be kept safe? Anthony

12-23-2005, 10:05 PM	#2
Farael Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: In hospitals, call rooms and (rarely) my apartment. Posts: 1,538	Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't one (or two even) of the Three make Sauron even more powerful? I do agree (even though I had not thought of it before until it was mentioned here) that he knew there was a Ring in Rivendell and another in Lorien. I don't know exactly how strong both cities were, but why didn't he attack them and recover at least two of the three? then he'd be even mightyer and he might have been able to crush Gondor in spite of Aragorn and Gandalf's best efforts.

12-25-2005, 02:30 AM	#4
Farael Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: In hospitals, call rooms and (rarely) my apartment. Posts: 1,538	I see... for some reason I thought that Sauron could wear the rings and it'd have somewhat of a cummulative effect. Perhaps not the three for they were not made for warfare and so Sauron wouldn't have used them much... but maybe the Nine and the seven? it'd be a really heavy hand to lift with all those rings on but if they do have a cummulative effect.....

03-21-2006, 10:30 AM	#7
obloquy Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: WA Posts: 941	I don't know if the power to protect a 'realm' was an inherent effect of the Three so much as an enhancing of the will of their keepers. Elrond's duty as master of his house was to protect it from evil, and his ring complemented that effort; likewise for Galadriel. Narya may have had a similar effect while in Cirdan's possession. However, Tolkien tells us somewhere that Narya's power was in motivating hearts and inciting action. But he also tells us that that was Olorin's specialty back in Aman, which suggests that the actual power of one of the Three depended even more strictly on the intentions of its bearer.