LotR1-FotR-Seq10 - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Elladan and Elrohir · 12-28-2005, 09:29 AM

I would say keep this scene and cut Galadriel's quote. Lorien's already the worst part of all three films anyway.

I still love this scene. It's a character development scene, which they need more of, and they get to develop Aragorn, Boromir, and Frodo, all at the same time. Remember, we're not looking over the Fellowship's shoulders during their entire journey, so we don't see all the hints Tolkien gives that "there's something wrong with that dude from Gondor." The audience has got to see that yeah, Boromir's a good guy, but he's got the Ring on the brain. Cut Galadriel. Keep this scene.

Boromir88 · 12-28-2005, 09:43 AM

Quote:

I would say keep this scene and cut Galadriel's quote. Lorien's already the worst part of all three films anyway.

Good point, because overall this scene is well done. It gets the point across effectively and shows us the beginning corruption of Boromir towards the Ring. I just felt like it was unneeded because later we see this very thing. But this scene is definitely more subtle than Galadriel coming out and saying "He will try to take the Ring." So if I had a choice I agree, I would keep this one and cut out Galadriel only giving the whole thing away. This scene is much more subtle and keeps the suspense of what is happening between the Ring and Boromir, where Galadriel words basically just ruin it for us.

Lathriel · 12-28-2005, 03:08 PM

I like this whole sequence and I don't have any major problems. I also really like the Boromir and Frodo scene on Caradhras. The camera angles are awesome and I like Boromir's quote when he picks up the ring,he says "It is a strange thing that we should suffer so much...for such a small thing,such a little thing." Of course it shows that Boromir is already getting caught by the ring.But I think there is another reason why the scene was put in because the quote voices the question some audience members may have. I know so many people who don't see the evil of the ring because they see the ring only as a an object, not as a thing that has a will and contains power.
Indeed the apple thing with Merry and Pippin is contagious. It follows them all the way to TTT.
I love all the landscape shots because it gives the feel that ME is very big and therefore very real. There are some fantasy worlds that are much smaller and thus they get a more fairy-tale like feeling. However. the scale of ME adds to the historical feel that I find in the books and in the movie too.

Essex · 12-28-2005, 05:35 PM

what about the way the Ring moves of its own volition on the chain as Boromir looks at it - brilliant! it's ACHING som much to get out of the hobbit's clutches and into the hands of someone who'll sell everyone down the river that it's moving itself towards him!

alatar · 12-28-2005, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boromir88

This scene is much more subtle and keeps the suspense of what is happening between the Ring and Boromir, where Galadriel words basically just ruin it for us.

The "Galadriel line" is just another PJism that just keeps you guessing, I guess. More tension, mayhap, for those nodding in the theater. Hmm, the Elf Queen says something 'he' will try to take the Ring or the like. Will 'he' be Aragorn? Gimli? Pippin?

Oops! Inching ever closer to my seat's edge, I fell off.

PJ will do this again later when we have Aragorn do some cliff diving - 'Is he dead?'

Elladan and Elrohir · 12-29-2005, 02:19 PM

Well, you're right about that, alatar, and maybe some of this discussion should be saved for when we actually get to Lorien, but when Galadriel says that, we've only seen one character show attraction to the Ring. That would be Boromir. I think they could still have her make some kind of allusion to it, without actually coming right out and telling Frodo "He will try to take the Ring." There's no suspense in it at all for me. Of course, I'd already read the books, so I knew that Boromir was going to anyway. But still, even if the blinders are still pulled over your eyes when Galadriel says that, your suspense will be gone when Boro says "None of us should wander alone" on Amon Hen. The only suspense you have left is will he succeed. So I think it could have been handled a lot better.

alatar · 12-29-2005, 02:49 PM

My point, in regards to the whole movie and not any individual sequence or even 'third,' is that in no way is PJ subtle. Nor can he resist adding the Gotcha! surprises for both reading and non-reading audience members. I'm starting to see more patterns, and with the knowledge now that he only did LotR in order to do King Kong in a big way, I would say that PJ had not the love that we here have for the material and only saw it as a vehicle to other ends.

Essex · 12-29-2005, 04:28 PM

Unfortunately, and this is not a go at ANYBODY, but these movie chapter by chapter discussions have finally joined all of the other movie discussions and are mainly an area for us to say what was wrong with the movie.

Yes, now and then people explain what was good about the movies (the music or the scenery mainly!) but then move onto their discection of the movie and why it failed compared to the book.

This is people's right and their honest opinions no doubt. But it grates with me that the vast majority of people here just talk about the negatives of the movies. It is a real pity.

Let me clear a few things up - my opinions:

1/ The movies will never be as good as the books.
2/ but the films are the best 3 movies ever made. period.
3/ a film cannot be all things to all men (unless it's written verbatim from the book - the clsoest I've seen is Shawshank Redemption - but then this is an ABRIDGED version of the book)
4/ PJ has a GREAT love of this book - You can see in the 10 years or so of effort he put into making the movie
5/ To say PJ wrote LOTR movie to 'get' King Kong made is like saying Tolkien wrote LOTR to get the Silmarillion published. Any less love for LOTR? NO!!!!!
6/ People always see the negatives in things first
7/ PJ deserved every single Oscar he achieved for these films, including the scriptwriters award for ROTK

I wonder if anyone here has heard of the saying 'Cut him some slack'.............

Lathriel · 12-29-2005, 05:27 PM

Well, Essex you certainly voiced my opinion. In my posts I try to be positive although I can't always help but to point out things that were nagging me.

I forgot to mention in my earlier post that I really liked the ruins the fellowship walked past. It shows some more history of ME and it is mentioned in the book that they walk past ruins when they are in the land of Hollin.

12-28-2005, 09:29 AM	#1
Elladan and Elrohir Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Halls of Mandos Posts: 332	I would say keep this scene and cut Galadriel's quote. Lorien's already the worst part of all three films anyway. I still love this scene. It's a character development scene, which they need more of, and they get to develop Aragorn, Boromir, and Frodo, all at the same time. Remember, we're not looking over the Fellowship's shoulders during their entire journey, so we don't see all the hints Tolkien gives that "there's something wrong with that dude from Gondor." The audience has got to see that yeah, Boromir's a good guy, but he's got the Ring on the brain. Cut Galadriel. Keep this scene. __________________ "If you're referring to the incident with the dragon, I was barely involved. All I did was give your uncle a little nudge out of the door." THE HOBBIT - IT'S COMING

12-28-2005, 03:08 PM	#3
Lathriel Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Wandering through Middle-Earth (Sadly in Alberta and not ME) Posts: 612	I like this whole sequence and I don't have any major problems. I also really like the Boromir and Frodo scene on Caradhras. The camera angles are awesome and I like Boromir's quote when he picks up the ring,he says "It is a strange thing that we should suffer so much...for such a small thing,such a little thing." Of course it shows that Boromir is already getting caught by the ring.But I think there is another reason why the scene was put in because the quote voices the question some audience members may have. I know so many people who don't see the evil of the ring because they see the ring only as a an object, not as a thing that has a will and contains power. Indeed the apple thing with Merry and Pippin is contagious. It follows them all the way to TTT. I love all the landscape shots because it gives the feel that ME is very big and therefore very real. There are some fantasy worlds that are much smaller and thus they get a more fairy-tale like feeling. However. the scale of ME adds to the historical feel that I find in the books and in the movie too. __________________ Back again

12-29-2005, 02:19 PM	#6
Elladan and Elrohir Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Halls of Mandos Posts: 332	Well, you're right about that, alatar, and maybe some of this discussion should be saved for when we actually get to Lorien, but when Galadriel says that, we've only seen one character show attraction to the Ring. That would be Boromir. I think they could still have her make some kind of allusion to it, without actually coming right out and telling Frodo "He will try to take the Ring." There's no suspense in it at all for me. Of course, I'd already read the books, so I knew that Boromir was going to anyway. But still, even if the blinders are still pulled over your eyes when Galadriel says that, your suspense will be gone when Boro says "None of us should wander alone" on Amon Hen. The only suspense you have left is will he succeed. So I think it could have been handled a lot better. __________________ "If you're referring to the incident with the dragon, I was barely involved. All I did was give your uncle a little nudge out of the door." THE HOBBIT - IT'S COMING

12-29-2005, 02:49 PM	#7
alatar Doubting Dwimmerlaik Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Heaven's basement Posts: 2,466	My point, in regards to the whole movie and not any individual sequence or even 'third,' is that in no way is PJ subtle. Nor can he resist adding the Gotcha! surprises for both reading and non-reading audience members. I'm starting to see more patterns, and with the knowledge now that he only did LotR in order to do King Kong in a big way, I would say that PJ had not the love that we here have for the material and only saw it as a vehicle to other ends. __________________ There is naught that you can do, other than to resist, with hope or without it.

12-29-2005, 05:27 PM	#9
Lathriel Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Wandering through Middle-Earth (Sadly in Alberta and not ME) Posts: 612	Well, Essex you certainly voiced my opinion. In my posts I try to be positive although I can't always help but to point out things that were nagging me. I forgot to mention in my earlier post that I really liked the ruins the fellowship walked past. It shows some more history of ME and it is mentioned in the book that they walk past ruins when they are in the land of Hollin. __________________ Back again

12-28-2005, 05:35 PM	#4
Essex Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Essex, England Posts: 886	what about the way the Ring moves of its own volition on the chain as Boromir looks at it - brilliant! it's ACHING som much to get out of the hobbit's clutches and into the hands of someone who'll sell everyone down the river that it's moving itself towards him!

12-29-2005, 04:28 PM	#8
Essex Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Essex, England Posts: 886	Unfortunately, and this is not a go at ANYBODY, but these movie chapter by chapter discussions have finally joined all of the other movie discussions and are mainly an area for us to say what was wrong with the movie. Yes, now and then people explain what was good about the movies (the music or the scenery mainly!) but then move onto their discection of the movie and why it failed compared to the book. This is people's right and their honest opinions no doubt. But it grates with me that the vast majority of people here just talk about the negatives of the movies. It is a real pity. Let me clear a few things up - my opinions: 1/ The movies will never be as good as the books. 2/ but the films are the best 3 movies ever made. period. 3/ a film cannot be all things to all men (unless it's written verbatim from the book - the clsoest I've seen is Shawshank Redemption - but then this is an ABRIDGED version of the book) 4/ PJ has a GREAT love of this book - You can see in the 10 years or so of effort he put into making the movie 5/ To say PJ wrote LOTR movie to 'get' King Kong made is like saying Tolkien wrote LOTR to get the Silmarillion published. Any less love for LOTR? NO!!!!! 6/ People always see the negatives in things first 7/ PJ deserved every single Oscar he achieved for these films, including the scriptwriters award for ROTK I wonder if anyone here has heard of the saying 'Cut him some slack'.............