Substituting Crying with laughter

[Roa_Aoife]

I don't if something is wrong with me as human being, but I didn't shed a drop all 3 movies. Certainly I felt sad at Boromir's death, but not teary.

I would like to point out that in the second and third films, it wasa very large number of people dying, as opposed to just Gandalf and then just Boromir. Well, and a whole lot of orcs, but no one really cares about them.

As they say, one death is a tragedy, a thousand is a statistic.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Why then are there so many tear-jerking war films if a huge number of deaths is somehow too much to cry over?

It's just how the Director chose to direct the film. He could have made it a lot more grim, yet still retained the PG certificate. Maybe he just wanted to concentrate on the glory of battle.

[Mithalwen]

I think there is the distinction between large numbers of "rank and file " soldiers getting killed in a film and the death of a character that the audience has "bonded" with or who has special significance.

[Folwren]

Why did Jackson shy away from crying? Maybe because in a movie, that's harder to do. . .I mean, when he doesn't develope the characters just like Tolkien did, and when he's screwed the story some, p'raps it was harder to do the crying. And then there was the time squeeze. . .but that was because of added stuff they did.

Should he have? No. I think he shouldn't have changed anything, but many people do. I won't complain, though. There were things that happened that made this fault passable. However, there are also things that really disapointed me when he did shy away from it. Like when Frodo was 'killed' by Shelob. . .that part in the book is one of my favorite parts, and it's also the part where I cry the second most (Grey Havens ranking the first). . .and yet in the movie, he gives him about twenty seconds to mourn.

Theoden and Eowyn's death, too. In the EE he made up, a bit, with Eomer finding her. That part was heart wrenching and wonderfully done, but. . .like you said, they went on too fast.

And as for you comment about no sadness/crying in TTT, I have to say that there really isn't all that much in the books, either. The parts that are sad, PJ put in theo ther two movies (Boromir's death and The Choices of Master Samwise). There are a few parts in the book that make me tear up, but not many, and none that are easily put on film.

Just my thoughts. . .

-- Folwren

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

Interesting...This post isn't as long or as in-depth as I'd like it to be, since I'm just checking in quickly before I have to leave in a few minutes.

I have to agree with Boromir about Finding Neverland...I love movies that make me cry, and it's definitely my favorite Johnny Depp film.

However, my reaction to ROTK was very different than the indifference that most people in the thread mention. ROTK is a very emotional movie for me. I guess that what one person finds emotionally powerful is not the same as what another thinks.

I think that it takes a certain amount of strength and self-confidence to put the tear-jerking stuff into a movie, though. So much of our culture (at least here in the US of A) is centered around a stiff-upper-lip attitude: crying is a show of weakness, etc. Sometimes powerful emotion in a movie can make the audience uncomfortable. Also, acting intense emotion is a lot harder than performing humor. Some directors take the easy way out. That could mean substituting humor inappropriate to the moment (Helm's Deep and pretty much any other Gimli scene reek of this), or it could lead to scenes that feel less than heartfelt (which I didn't notice much of in the LOTR movies). I'd rather emotion be absent than be fake.

I didn't get the sense that emotion was faked in ROTK or TTT. When it was there, I felt it. Like I said, I pretty much cried my way through ROTK, and the end of TTT was teary for me, too.

That's not to say I'm defending movies that don't make you feel. I think that movies that succeed in the attempt of emotion, like Finding Neverland, and (for me, at least, LOTR), are a rare breed for unfortunate reasons. Though it does make them that much more special, makes real power that much more breathtaking.

[Lalaith]

I do find battle-scenes very stirring, and I also if they are well done, find them incredibly moving - much more so than love stories or "buddy" moments.

Heroic last stands are my particular three-hankie thing. Fighting because you know the cause is right, even though you know you're going to die - so, Faramir and co riding to Osgiliath, or the students on the barricades in Les Mis, whatever. *sniff*

[alatar]

My observation is that PJ took more time developing the charaters in FotR and much much less in TTT and RotK, where many characters, major and minor, become stereotypical 'one notes' (i.e. Gimli the joker, Legolas the skater, Aragorn = hope, etc). I welled up (as close to crying as I'm genetically able) the first few hundred times that I saw Boromir dying (after a while, you get used to it). This same death scene gets skipped when my kids watch it as it's a little to close to the real deal. Battle trolls smashing Gondorians helter-skelter is one thing (like a video game or cartoon), but Boromir lying on the ground near death while the teary-eyed Aragorn hovers over him is another.

PJ shot that scene well, and though I didn't time it, it runs far longer than the 'death of Gandalf' outside of Moria wake and is much much longer than any other death scene in the movie.

Theoden's son gets buried, but who is he?

PJ made us like Boromir by adding moments, especially in the EE version, where you got to know him. In TTT and RotK, not only are we not made to 'like' the characters as much - I'd bet that a dreaded poll would place Boromir above Theoden - PJ does not slow the pace down and 'zoom in' for a moment. Theoden's death doesn't linger; we see it and soon after we're somewhere else.

Also, as stated elsewhere, I think that PJ went for more laughs when he could add them in. My conspiracy theory is that he watched FotR with a live audience, noted when they laughed and decided to 'double' the number of laughs in TTT.

PJ got me with the horns of the Rohirrim, but with little else in TTT and RotK. My eyes were red and watery after seeing the Gandalf vs Witch-King scene on the EE DVDs, but that may have been due to the screaming .

Anyway, all of this scattered rambling can be summed up in that I too wish that PJ maintained the balance of laughter and crying (among other things) as he did in FotR.

[Glirdan]

Also, acting intense emotion is a lot harder than performing humor.

I can completely vouch for this statement. It is indeed a lot harder to act emotionaly, whether it be crying or just a very sad scene. It's really hard to cry because (take this from a Drama minor) you have to cry in between the word in order to make yourself audible. Of course, that can be fixed in a movie unlike in theater. Acting asd is actuallynot as difficult, but it can be hard to keep a straight face. How many times do you think they've had to redo a very emotional scene in any movie?

Now that I think about, I belive, just as Zali does, that even though he changed the movie a lot because of time limits, it still turned out (in my opinion) to be the best movie series that has been released to date.

I must also agree with her statement on that crying during a movie is seen as weakness. Now, I have a little question. Who cried during Titanic? Would you consider that weakness? If not, then why during any other movie would you consider it weakness? It really angers me when people say "Oh your such a wimp for crying during the Lord of the Rings!" There is no difference between crying in Titanic which is based on a real story and things did actuallly happen and crying in Lord of the Rings, which is an entirely fictional series, because people died.

Now I kind of went of track there, so to get back on... I must say that the comic relief moments they have in the books aren't needed such as the TT moment just before the battle. "Would you like me to describe it to you or would you like me to get a box?" I mean, come on. That's just insulting the Dwarf and we all know what happens when you anger a Dwarf. That was the cheesiest comic relief moment I've ever heard. There are also other such moments that weren't needed. It's those times when I wish PJ would have stuck with what was written in the book.

Now, among all this rambling, there is a point to my madness. I agree with this statement from alatar:

Anyway, all of this scattered rambling can be summed up in that I too wish that PJ maintained the balance of laughter and crying (among other things) as he did in FotR.