The "Fair" Sex in LotR - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

littlemanpoet · 06-29-2002, 12:56 PM

Thanks, Lush, for your corrective regarding Arwen. Maybe accomplishment is an obsession of my masculine side, and what you say about all earthly happiness coming to an end is very astute and to the point. And sad.

Estelyn and Bethberry, I did not mention Ioreth but almost did. I confess that I found her talkativeness to be enough of an aspect of her personality that I could not hold her in my mind as a wise-woman. I could not respect her. She seemed petty to me, and it seemed to me that Gandalf spoke to her rather condescendingly. That's how I saw it anyway. So in this one case I'd say Tolkien perhaps did not do so well, and seems to have corrected or bettered his writing of this type of woman in Andreth.

Bethberry, your perspective on Eowyn is a good reminder. However, it may help to consider that the culture in which she grew up was Nordic, which has a tragic-doom subtext running through it. So JRRT was perhaps writing true to character in having Eowyn respond to Aragorn in this peculiarly Nordic depiction of sexuality. Perhaps, therefore, we see more (or just as much) a repudiation of this self-destructive aspect of Nordic culture, than (or as well as) of a masculine side to Eowyn.

Wow, Bethberry, whether Tolkien intended to or not, maybe at a subconscious level he wrote into the fourth age a devaluation of women. What an insight, if it's true.

06-29-2002, 12:56 PM	#11
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	Thanks, Lush, for your corrective regarding Arwen. Maybe accomplishment is an obsession of my masculine side, and what you say about all earthly happiness coming to an end is very astute and to the point. And sad. Estelyn and Bethberry, I did not mention Ioreth but almost did. I confess that I found her talkativeness to be enough of an aspect of her personality that I could not hold her in my mind as a wise-woman. I could not respect her. She seemed petty to me, and it seemed to me that Gandalf spoke to her rather condescendingly. That's how I saw it anyway. So in this one case I'd say Tolkien perhaps did not do so well, and seems to have corrected or bettered his writing of this type of woman in Andreth. Bethberry, your perspective on Eowyn is a good reminder. However, it may help to consider that the culture in which she grew up was Nordic, which has a tragic-doom subtext running through it. So JRRT was perhaps writing true to character in having Eowyn respond to Aragorn in this peculiarly Nordic depiction of sexuality. Perhaps, therefore, we see more (or just as much) a repudiation of this self-destructive aspect of Nordic culture, than (or as well as) of a masculine side to Eowyn. Wow, Bethberry, whether Tolkien intended to or not, maybe at a subconscious level he wrote into the fourth age a devaluation of women. What an insight, if it's true.