Culinary traditions in Middle Earth

[Child of the 7th Age]

I think we can assume the "growing zone" and crops would be similar to the situation in Victorian or Edwardian England. I did not mean to say that hobbits were vegetarians . But knowing what I know about rural folk in earlier times, meat and fowl would not have been an everyday thing. I do think that chicken would have been the most frequent "meat", with pork in second place. They could have caught fish from shore in small lakes, ponds, and rivers, since they weren't keen on boats.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Child of the 7th Age

I think we can assume the "growing zone" and crops would be similar to the situation in Victorian or Edwardian England. I did not mean to say that hobbits were vegetarians . But knowing what I know about rural folk in earlier times, meat and fowl would not have been an everyday thing. I do think that chicken would have been the most frequent "meat", with pork in second place. They could have caught fish from shore in small lakes, ponds, and rivers, since they weren't keen on boats.

This seems to me to be quite true. During earlier times (in the "west"), meat has been somewhat a rarity: happily and joyously consumed, when possible, but still not everyday stuff as it is nowadays. There's a long path of cultural history between now-a-day westerners and their forefathers (and -mothers). Although we should remember this basic rule of history / cultural anthropology: the farther away from the equator, the higher percentage of the daily diet is coming from meat. In scandinavia you couldn't have survived with only berries and mushrooms...

And anyway. In my recollection, Tolkien's Hobbitton, is more like the early 20th. century (or late 19th.) rural england than a Victorian age one (although I admit I might be wrong). This is just an image I have.

But tell me if I'm wrong: I just can't imagine folks of the Shire to eat fish! (Here we go, Child of the 7th. Age!!!). I could think the hobbits of around the Brandybuck river would eat fish regularily, though.

[Nogrod]

Hello everyone!

I'm truly pleased to see this thread coming to live, after a couple of weeks silence. The discussion has been interesting, and I hope it would continue as such.

Still, Estelyn has voiced a reasonable concern about this one, and I think she (?) is partly right. So within a day or two, or three, ahead now, I'm going to open a new thread for the recipies only (I'll establish the name of the thread here as I have founded it = do not know it yet: any suggestions?). That way we can continue the discussion here as it is already going on, and anyone wishing to contribute with a recipie or to check one to try it out, should then visit the recipie thread.

So this one continuing as a discussion forum, the new one serving as a "cookbook".

And still, I am encouraging others to share their recipies also with all the rest of us.

PS. Don't bother with those "Ringwraith-mousse" or "Orc-pudding" -recipies. The earlier culinary threads are quite filled up with those...

[eowyntje]

I am still searching for any food hobbits ate

So far in the 'lotr' I've found records of hobbits eating: patatoes, rabbits, herbs, mushrooms, carrots, cabigages, bread, corn, appels, honey, wine, beer, and pipeweed.

And in 'the Hobbit' I found: tea, cake, gingerbread, coffee, port, buter, applepie, raspberryjam, cheese, lettuce, pork, eggs, chicken, tomatoes.

I have of course not found out all that is said about the eating-behaviour of hobbits jet, but it seems quite clear that hobbits must have had an extensive trade-network to get all these things, as there is no climate in which they can all be produced.
Also, I think the mentioning of cheese in 'the hobbit' makes clear that hobbits had acces to milk and beef. (wether they ate it is another thing)

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by eowyntje

Also, I think the mentioning of cheese in 'the hobbit' makes clear that hobbits had acces to milk and beef. (wether they ate it is another thing)

This same thing has come across in a couple of mails, and seems to call for attention. It is not, that only cows produce milk. It is a common characteristics of mammals in general. Quite a many of those are being used by humans in the real world - so why not by hobbits in the Middle Earth? Propably the most famous cheeses in the world are made from something other than cow's milk, f.ex. goat's or sheep's milk!

Otherwise, thank's to Eowyntje's toil and labour. These lists are a great help!

[eowyntje]

Good point, I totally forgot about that. I'll take it in consideration when I look for things hobbits might eat.

[Thinlómien]

Dwarves could keep chicken in cages. They could hunt small mammals and mountain deers and gazelles, since they can use bows. (I'm referring to The Hobbit and Mirkwood, where Thorin shots the deer.) Why would they bother learning so much archery if they preferred hand-to-hand combat in war, if not hunt? (I actually began to fancy my theory of hunting dwarves. Any opinions?)

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by eowyntje

I am still searching for any food hobbits ate

So far in the 'lotr' I've found records of hobbits eating: patatoes, rabbits, herbs, mushrooms, carrots, cabigages, bread, corn, appels, honey, wine, beer, and pipeweed.

And in 'the Hobbit' I found: tea, cake, gingerbread, coffee, port, buter, applepie, raspberryjam, cheese, lettuce, pork, eggs, chicken, tomatoes.

I have of course not found out all that is said about the eating-behaviour of hobbits jet, but it seems quite clear that hobbits must have had an extensive trade-network to get all these things, as there is no climate in which they can all be produced.
Also, I think the mentioning of cheese in 'the hobbit' makes clear that hobbits had acces to milk and beef. (wether they ate it is another thing)

All of those things would be able to be produced in the English climate, apart from pipeweed which I would certainly be growing outdoors if I could! Though it may be possible to grow it indoors under UV lights? Not that I shall try that as the police helicopter with its thermal imaging cam might think I am growing something else! I couldn't imagine Tolkien, a committed smoker, leaving out the joys of tobacco for his Hobbits.

Coffee might have been chicory coffee, which was extremely common here until recently; I believe coffee can also be made from acorns and hazelnuts? I have colleagues who grow tomatoes on their windowsills at work, and my father once grew some in his porch; and grapes do grow outdoors in the warmer parts of England.

I think Tolkien noticed that tobacco, potatoes and tomatoes were an 'anachronism' but he happily left them in.

Meat would not necessarily have been so hard to come by if we are going to equate The Shire with late Victorian/Edwardian England. But people would have eaten many more cuts of meat than we would find palatable today - things like brawn (brains), offal, tongue, trotters, oxtail, black pudding (mmmm.....), tripe etc. As my grandfather used to say, the only part of a pig you cannot eat is the squeak. Sorry to any veggies out there. In fact, game, beef, pork and mutton/lamb would have been much more common than would chicken; I understand that when my dad was young the only time you got chicken was when one of the hens died, and then you'd have 'old hen pie'. Sometimes they would allow the males to grow a little and eat them too, as there was less need for cockerels, obviously.

Fish would have been a regular meal. Historically, fish ponds were found all over the English countryside as a regular and easy to maintain and catch supply of food. Maybe the rivers in The Shire would also have been teeming with freshwater shrimp and crayfish too.

I like the way the Hobbits are excited to find wild mushrooms growing, as even though mushrooms are easy to cultivate (they could be grown in the darker rooms of smials!) there is nothing like the taste of field mushrooms, and the locations where they can be found are usually a locally guarded secret.

[JennyHallu]

Perhaps the "pipeweed" Tolkien refers to is a plant unique to Middle-Earth, albeit sharing many properties with tobacco.

Also, I am not altogether sure whether tobacco could not be grown in England. I am familiar with the climate in which tobacco is commonly grown here in the United States: areas with fairly temperate climates and warm, but not terribly hot summers. Tobacco is often grown in the Smokey (or Appalachian) mountains, so large snowfalls and/or strong rains (rain tends to get caught on the mountain-slopes) are something the plant is certainly hardy enough to handle.

EDIT: In a fantasy country, can potatoes truly be referred to as an Anachronism? If you define Middle-Earth as only referring to Europe's climate and plant life, you give us Americans, West across the Sea, an awful lot of credit.

Perhaps Tolkien decided that potatoes, in the 450 some odd years since their introduction in Europe, had become such an integral part of the culture and cuisine of the British Isles he could not separate them. Or maybe it didn't occur to him to try. Sometimes I fear we read too much into the tale...As my husband would say, "Sometimes a red car is just a red car," signifying nothing beyond the idea that perhaps Tolkien had a soft spot for fish and chips, or for tobacco.

[eowyntje]

Originally Posted by JennyHallu

Perhaps Tolkien decided that potatoes, in the 450 some odd years since their introduction in Europe, had become such an integral part of the culture and cuisine of the British Isles he could not separate them. Or maybe it didn't occur to him to try. Sometimes I fear we read too much into the tale...As my husband would say, "Sometimes a red car is just a red car," signifying nothing beyond the idea that perhaps Tolkien had a soft spot for fish and chips, or for tobacco.

Good of you to point out that. Maybe we were digging to deep. Tolkien couldn't possibly have thoughts of everything, including the origin of every plant in the Shire. Maybe we should just be happy knowing that wherever patatoes came from, hobbits grew them.

I defenitely think hobbit's ate fish, fish makes sence.
I haven't had any time to do any more research on hobbit eating behaviour, I'll let you know if IU find any mentionings of fish in the books.

[Thinlómien]

I'm too lazy to find the exact quote, but isn't Sam in Mordor dreaming about waddling through the river? If hobbits fished like standing in a river and piercing the fish with harpoons?

And of course, we're forgetting one of the most famous parts of the chapter of Herbs and stewed rabbit! Sam boasts to Gollum about S. Gamgee's fish and chips. That, if something, proves that hobbits ate fish.

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Thinlomien

I'm too lazy to find the exact quote, but isn't Sam in Mordor dreaming about waddling through the river? If hobbits fished like standing in a river and piercing the fish with harpoons?

And of course, we're forgetting one of the most famous parts of the chapter of Herbs and stewed rabbit! Sam boasts to Gollum about S. Gamgee's fish and chips. That, if something, proves that hobbits ate fish.

There are lots of ways of fishing that don't involve getting in a boat, from trout tickling to basket casting, to even stringing up nets across a watercourse to catch whatever might swim or drift that way. I'm sure Hobbits would think of some ingenious way of catching tasty fisheses that didn't involve nassty boatses!

And it seems Gollum himself is skilled in the art of trout tickling, something I can imagine many a Hobbit lad doing on a hot day.

I wonder if there was a water bailiff in the Shire, waiting to catch people without a permit? It's happened to me, that's why I find the thought appealing...

Originally Posted by Jenny Hallu

Perhaps Tolkien decided that potatoes, in the 450 some odd years since their introduction in Europe, had become such an integral part of the culture and cuisine of the British Isles he could not separate them. Or maybe it didn't occur to him to try. Sometimes I fear we read too much into the tale...As my husband would say, "Sometimes a red car is just a red car," signifying nothing beyond the idea that perhaps Tolkien had a soft spot for fish and chips, or for tobacco.

I think taters have become such a strong feature in British cuisine that we almost think they are a native vegetable! Part of the reason (amongst many) why Ireland suffered so badly during the potato famine was that they had such an agricultural monoculture and had few other crops to fall back on when blight struck! I know that where I grew up there were fields as far as you could see which were devoted to growing taters.

EDIT: I've just found out that tobacco will grow just about anywhere - it's a big crop in Sweden apparently, where chewing tobacco is popular - it's called snus. What's more, it's totally legal and duty free. So pipeweed is perfectly feasible in a Shire which is equivalent to England.