Tol-in-Gaurhoth XVII: The Saga Continues to Continue quite Continuously

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

I will have to go back and review what has been said throughout our four previous days of discussion. For today, I see little point in a double-lynch unless we can be reasonably sure that we have identified the final Wolf. I am not nearly certain enough to countenance voting for anyone other than TGWBS at this stage. We do not want to help the last Wolf by eliminating an innocent with our known Wolf. We would then be two innocents and one Wolf down tomorrow.

Actually, a double lynching would give us better chances to find the final wolf tomorrow even if we guess wrong toDay.

Known innocents:
Formendacil
malkatoj
mormegil
Nilp
Sauce


Unknowns:
Garin
Gil
Glirdan
Kath
spawn

Known wolves:
TGWBS


TGWBS will be lynched toDay. Malkatoj will be killed next Night, and at dawn, here we are with four known innocents and five unknowns. If we choose someone to die from the 'unknowns' group with TGWBS, we have tomorrow four known innocents against four unknowns and thus better chances to spot the final wolf. I'm not that fond of "playing safe" *coughWW15cough* but I have nothing against getting rid of the wolves.

Originally Posted by Sauce

Dancing spawn really does concern me, though. She has been vocal throughout. Her contributions have made good sense. Mostly because of that, she has not yet attracted a single vote.

You're welcome to suspect me as much as you want to, but I can tell you right now that I'm an ordinary villager.

[Glirdan]

Malka the Seer eh? For the longest time, I thought that TGWBS was the Seer. His sudden change in suspicion of me seemed very odd, yet I think he might have caught on to something that the villagers haven't. But now I see it was all a ploy for villagers to trust him and to confuse us.

I'm ok with the double lynching idea but if we are to do that, I still think that we should go for either Garin or Kath. I think there's a stronger case against Kath though. She's really been flying under my radar. Making herself heard yet not attracting to much suspicion. And now, looking back at the voting pattern for the first few Days, she's had the same vote as TGWBS each Day except for day 2 when she voted for Valier instead. Another thing I notice about her is that on everyDay (except for Day 4 because she had to vote early) she's voted late in the Day after the votes have gathered enough for them. She's definetly raised up in my suspicions list.

I'm going to wait to vote to see what else develops.

[The Saucepan Man]

Well, the villagers had better win after all this. I have just spent the best part of my Sunday re-reading the entire thread, when I should have been unpacking boxes and putting up shelves in my new lawyerly residence.

More of that later ...

For now:

Originally Posted by dancing spawn

TGWBS will be lynched toDay. Malkatoj will be killed next Night, and at dawn, here we are with four known innocents and five unknowns. If we choose someone to die from the 'unknowns' group with TGWBS, we have tomorrow four known innocents against four unknowns and thus better chances to spot the final wolf.

OK, the maths works for me. I am up for a double-lynching - if we can organise it. Note, if we are going to do this, the Hunter should declare so that we do not lynch him or her by mistake. That will also give us more known innocents (assuming that malkatoj did not dream of the Hunter).

Problem is that we need to agree on who we should double-lynch. And the last Wolf and the Cobbler are both capable of mucking up our plans, and perhaps even saving TGWBS. We need to be alive to this risk and one or more of our trusted villagers will need to stay around until the end of voting to make sure that things do not go wrong. I may be able to do this. Nilp probably won't be around again today and Formendacil and malkatoj have already voted. How about you, morm?

More in a bit with my thoughts on who the last Wolf might be.

In the meantime - HUNTER, PLEASE DECLARE YOURSELF.

[Glirdan]

Well, it's oddly quiet toDay.

Now, I know this is going to be both a very stupid and incriminating questions but I have to ask it. Why do we ABSOLUTELY want the Hunter to reveal him/herself? Yes it would have another innocent narrowed down, but by the sounds of it, TGWBS and the other Wolf already know who it is. Here is exactly what he said:

And then, while you-know-who is certainly the you-know-what, what with the innocent list, it's safer to pick them off than killing you-know-who.

Now, does that not seem like they already know who it is? Now TGWBS's suggested plan for the final Wolf is to leave whoever they're talking about in be and go after the people in the innocent list starting with Malka. If the Hunter reveals him/herself, then that gives the last Wolf more incentive to go after the Hunter after tomorrow Night and possibly take down another Wolf with him/her. Do we really want to risk that chance?

Edit: Cross-posted with SpM

[mormegil]

On second thought I don't think the double lynching is the greatest idea and we should probably wait until the situation is a bit more desperate.

++TGWBS

I still claim Formendacil is the cobbler and that he should be lynched tomorrow if we don't know who the wolf is.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Originally Posted by Glirdan

Now, does that not seem like they already know who it is? Now TGWBS's suggested plan for the final Wolf is to leave whoever they're talking about in be and go after the people in the innocent list starting with Malka. If the Hunter reveals him/herself, then that gives the last Wolf more incentive to go after the Hunter after tomorrow Night and possibly take down another Wolf with him/her. Do we really want to risk that chance?

I think TGWBS' "you-know-who" talk was just something he said to spite us. However, if the Hunter is among the known innocents, I don't see why s/he should declare him/herself.

[The Saucepan Man]

Who might be the last Wolf out of the remaining unknowns?

Gil-Galad
An unknown quantity. His posts, and his one vote, tell us very little. But I still have a concern that, with Naria voting infrequently, the third Wolf would not be such a consistent non-voter too.

Originally Posted by TGWBS on Day 1

I, TGWBS, hereby formally declare suspicion of the following: Wayne, SpM, mormegil, Gil, Abercrombie.

Four of those he randomly accused on Day 1 are now known to be innocent. Is the fifth also innocent, or did he include a fellow Wolf in that list?

Originally Posted by TGWBS on Day 3

The two others I'm closely watching at the moment are wayne and Gil. Of these two, I find Gil most worrying ... But Gil's vote - that's incriminating! It can't really be construed as anything but a capitalisation on wayne's self-vote.

It would be dangerous for a Wolf to cast suspicion, and so strongly, on Gil-Galad if he was a fellow Wolf. This would suggest to me that Gil is not a fellow Wolf.

Originally Posted by TGWBS, also on Day 3

For myself, I see the werewolves as mormegil, Glirdan, and either Garin or a quiet villager such as wayne, Gil or Marco.

Same comment applies. And this also speaks in Garin's favour, given that Garin has generally been under a lot of suspicion. It is possible, however, that TGWBS chose to include one fellow Wolf on that list in an attempt to clear them should he be lynched.

Glirdan
OK, I'll be frank, here. I think that Glirdan is the Hunter. Remember that the Ranger and the Hunter knew who each other were and could communiate during the day? Of all the villagers still alive, Cailin's posts point most towards Glirdan being the Hunter. She defended him quite strongly. Spawn voiced strong suspicion of Cailin and Garin voted for her, so it cannot be either of those two.

Kath
TGWBS made the point yesterday that Kath's votes have been among some of the least suspicious.

Originally Posted by TGWBS on Day 2

Finally, Kath's vote for Abercrombie. Not wolvish at all. Just look at the numbers involved when she voted - it was an incriminating, non-wolf thing to do

Originally Posted by TGWBS on Day 3

I think I will mention Kath. After Day 1, I believed in her innocence due to her voting for Abercrombie last. Yesterday, she was the only one to vote for Valier. Unless she's being incredibly bold, I don't think she's a wolf. Why kill somebody you voted for in the Day?

I agreed with what he said about Kath's votes, although the reason that she gave for voting for Abercrombie (following spawn) still seems strange. However, TGWBS's fairly strong defence of Kath gives me reason to worry about her.

Also, one other point to note about Kath, from reviewing her contributions, is that she seems to work by looking at the ideas that others have put forward and basing her own contributions on that - agreeing or disagreeing with others' ideas, rather than putting forward her own. Possibly, a good way for a Wolf to hide.

As has been noted, she has voted the same way as TGWBS on every day, except Day 3 when TGWBS voted for a fellow Wolf. That is incriminating on the face of it, but would two Wolves vote so consistently for the same villagers?

Garin
I really do not think Garin to be a Wolf. If he is, he has been playing very boldly. Just look at this:

Garin voted for Valier on Day 1. Valier voted for him on Day 2. Valier dies on Night 3 and is shown to be innocent.

Garin voted for Shelob on Day 2, to save himself. Shelob is lynched and shown to be innocent.

Cailin strongly suspected Garin and voted for him on Day 2.

Originally Posted by Cailin on Day 2

Now Garin does look suspicious in my eyes. He mostly just agrees with Saucy and Morm, which is always clever because they are likely people to bring up a case against you.

He voted for Cailin on Day 3. Cailin was forced to reveal herself as the Ranger and died on Night 4.

Marcolie Lamen strongly suspected Garin on Day 4, but did not vote. Garin voted for Marcolie Lamen on Day 4.

Originally Posted by Marcolie Lamen on Day 3

It makes sense to me for Naria and Garin to be working together, at opposite ends of the spetrum, and then someone else in between.

Originally Posted by Garin on Day 3

In fact, I found the post to be wolvish enough and I have too much work to do that I will vote now:
++Márcolië Lamen

Marcolie Lamen dies on Night 5 and is shown to be innocent.

Garin has some kind of involvement with the death of most of the innocents who have died. Would a Wolf be so foolish as to allow this to happen? Possibly, but it is extremely risky behaviour for a Wolf. The fact that Marcolie died last night tends to suggest to me that it was yet another attmept to frame him and that he is in fact innocent.

Dancing spawn
She has voted for a known innocent on every day and that three of those she has voted for ended up being lynched on the day she voted for them. However, since three of my four votes have been for known innocents, I cannot accuse her on that basis alone. I can find very little else that incriminates her, although that fact in itself is worrying.

On Day 2, however, she did stoke up the suspicion of Shelob and Cailin:

Originally Posted by Dancing spawn on Day 2

Somehow I'm now starting to feel more uneasy about Shelob and Cailín. I'll go looking back at their posts now and tell if I find something.

I will not deny that dancing spawn's suspicions of these two influenced my own thoughts about them. She is a sensible and analytical villager, and so I respect her views. When they match my own thoughts, then they reinforce them. That makes her dangerous in my eyes.

TGWBS's comments are interesting, as far as spawn is concerned:

Originally Posted by TGWBS on Day 2

Spawn was the next to vote. I'm not sure what to make of her. This was when Valier also had three votes, again tying. Without knowing Valier's identity, we can't infer anything.

This might be seen as an attempt to tie dancing spawn's innocence to that of Valier (as spawn's vote tied Abercrombie with Valier). Valier was later killed by the Wolves and shown to be innocent.

Originally Posted by TGWBS, also on Day 2

So, I must say, I feel that all those voting for Abercrombie were innocent. This is not only because I was in the group - it seemed like a rational thing to do, at the time, and while I regret her innocence, I believed it to be logical.

By declaring those who voted for Abercrombie to be innocent, he is attempting to clear himself. But is he also attempting to clear either Kath or spawn? It would be a logical thing to do if two Wolves had ended up getting themselves caught in the Abercrombie bandwaggon.

Originally Posted by TGWBS on Day 3

Interestingly, spawn, SpM, Kath and Garin have all voted for innocents twice. I'm not sure how telling this is, as I'm inclined to suspect none of the above, really. Perhaps I shall have to look into all of them individually. I went through Valier's posts, and she doesn't really mention anybody but Garin. As Cailin says, this makes him look bad, but it could easily be a bluff, or double bluff.

Again, a possible attempt to clear either spawn or Kath - and he also mentions Garin.

To conclude, I would prefer not to include in any double-lynching Gil-Galad, Garin or Glirdan (the 'three Gs' that everyone else seems so suspicious of).

That leaves Kath or spawn ...

Edit: Cross-posted with Glirdan, morm and spawn, whose comments I shall address shortly.

[malkatoj]

To answer SpM's question, yes I have dreamt of all those people, and no I have not dreamt of the hunter.

Thanks TGWBS for confirming my Seerdom, you horrible furry wolf.

[mormegil]

Malka, out of curiousity which order were the dreamt?

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Glirdan

Now, I know this is going to be both a very stupid and incriminating questions but I have to ask it. Why do we ABSOLUTELY want the Hunter to reveal him/herself? Yes it would have another innocent narrowed down, but by the sounds of it, TGWBS and the other Wolf already know who it is.

Actually, it's not incriminating. It reinforces my view that you are the Hunter. Assuming you are, sorry for "outing" you, but I felt it necessary.

I tend to agree that the Wolves have a good idea who the Hunter is. Given that, is it not better that the innocents have that knowledge too? Since malkatoj has not dreamed of them, the Hunter becomes another known innocent (and someone who is definately not a Cobbler), narrowing down our list of suspects for the last Wolf.

Originally Posted by Glirdan

If the Hunter reveals him/herself, then that gives the last Wolf more incentive to go after the Hunter after tomorrow Night and possibly take down another Wolf with him/her.

The Hunter is in no danger tonight, since the Seer will be his or her target. That gives us a ratio of five known innocents to four unknowns tomorrow (since a double lynch now looks out of the question). The last Wolf would be foolish to target the Hunter the following night, because there is a one in three chance that the Hunter will kill them. And, if the Hunter were to target the wrong person, then that would leave us with four known innocents to two unknowns and almost certain victory (provided that we could avoid the Cobbler's machinations).

All in all, I think that it is best if the Hunter declares, if not now then certainly tomorrow.

Originally Posted by mormegil

On second thought I don't think the double lynching is the greatest idea and we should probably wait until the situation is a bit more desperate.

Well, it's probably out of the question with your vote. But why don't you think it a good idea?

Originally Posted by mormegil

I still claim Formendacil is the cobbler and that he should be lynched tomorrow if we don't know who the wolf is.

Eh? Kill someone that we know is not a Wolf, even though he may be the Cobbler, rather than kill someone who may actually turn out to be a Wolf? What kind of madness is this? Are you the Cobbler, perchance?

Originally Posted by malkatoj

To answer SpM's question, yes I have dreamt of all those people, and no I have not dreamt of the hunter.

Thanks, malka. That helps a lot.

[Garin]

Well I am working on a Sunday, a double-lynch doesn't seem to be happening.
If Malkatoj indeed turns out to be a seer and Guy is a wolf we will know that the following MIGHT be a wolf:
Garin
Gil
Glirdan
Kath
spawn
I have already cast my vote and can't do much at work, so I will try to spend time during the night giving a write-up of the unknowns. Chances are I will train my sights on those who suspect me, that is how I roll, knowing that I am a miserable Ordo.
The cobbler shows as an ordo to the seer, correct? I had assumptions coming into this game and was enlightened by Form that there is no cursed, should someone PM the Mod God and verify this?

[Meneltarmacil]

*rises from the grave*

The Cobbler does in fact appear as an Ordinary Villager to the Seer.
And there is no Cursed.

*sinks back into the grave*

[Glirdan]

Well SpM, you just blew my cover, but, I guess it's for the best of the village. I am indeed the Hunter and that is in fact why me and Cailin have not suspected each other. Now we're down to three unknown's and out of them, I still believe that Kath is the last Wolf. Unfortunately, I believe that the Wolves already knew this. What's really surprsing to me now is if they knew yesterDay that I was the Hunter, why did they not attack me.

I will now cast my vote for

++The-Guy-Who-Be-Wolf

May we lynch you in style you evil lupine.

As for me, I do not know if I will return. I will try but I do not know if I will be able to do it. As I said above, may we lynch him in style. Which also means make it terrible and evil.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by mormegil

Now that's a great segway into my theory of killing Formendacil tomorrow. I don't think it will happen nor do I suppose it's the wisest course of action. However, I do want to continue to assert that he seems cobblerish to me. I feel that if I let up on this he may be able to wreak havoc and ruin an almost guaranteed victory.

I certainly agree that we should be alive to the fact that one of our known innocents might well be the Cobbler. I am dubious as to whether it is Formendacil, as he started out acting too darn Cobbleresque. I am concerned that the Cobbler has actually played a much more subtle game, hoping to avoid suspicion or Wolfish maw until the time comes when he or she can do most damage. That time is nearing, so we all need to be alert.

What concerned me about your post was the way that you suggested killing Formendacil, who we know is not a Wolf, if we cannot find a Wolf. The chances of locating a Wolf with any certainty tomorrow are low. But, by lynching one of the unknowns, we will at least be giving ourselves the chance of lynching the last Wolf - or possibly even the Cobbler. Lynching Formendacil tomorrow might rid us of the Cobbler (unlikely in my view), but carries with it no chance of killing a Wolf and much more chance of killing an ordinary innocent. Let's not go there. 'Tis a silly plan.

My own view is that, overnight, we should all review the entire proceedings, focussing on those who remain unknown quantites, what they have said and what the known Wolves have said about them. I have already done this, and it looks like spawn has too. Having done this, we should agree amongst ourselves tomorrow as far as we are able who, of the unknowns, we should lynch. That way, we minimise the possibility of Wolfish and Cobblerseque influence.

For now, I might as well cast my vote. TGWBS is a Wolf. We know that and, with five votes cast for him and five votes to come, he will die in any event. Everyone else who I would consider voting for still has a vote left, and so there is no point in me trying for a double lynch. Whatever happens, therefore, today's votes will tell us nothing. So I might as well vote for:

++ THE GUY WHO BE SHORT and fiendish.

Originally Posted by Garin

If Malkatoj indeed turns out to be a seer and Guy is a wolf ...

Why do you still think there is any doubt here? TGWBS has admitted it.

The only other possibility is that malkatoj is a Wolf and TGWBS is the Cobbler. In the highly unlikely event that this is the case, we lynch malkatoj tomorrow.

The cobbler shows as an ordo to the seer, correct?

Yes. Any one of our known innocents could be the Cobbler.

Edit: Cross-posted with Modertarmacil, Glirdan and dancing spawn.

[Gil-Galad]

sorry for me barely being on... but i read over everyone else and i would probably have to go for TGWBS, but i have a feeling he might be innocent... though my vote probably won't do much


++Spawn


i got mixed feelings...

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Glirdan

Well SpM, you just blew my cover, but, I guess it's for the best of the village.

Sorry, but I did think that it was for the best. I thought that it was obvious, once Cailin declared herself. That's why I no longer suspected you. I am pretty sure that TGWBS would have worked it out too (he was the only other person, in my view, that could have been the Hunter, based upon how things had gone with Cailin). I wondered whether the Wolves might have gone for you instead of Cailin on Night 4 on the basis that I was your most likely target at that stage. They could have taken down two innocents in one blow, although it would have given Cailin one more day.

Assuming that malkatoj dies tonight, we will at least have one trusted villager, which will be useful if we decide to go for a double lynch. One word of caution - choose your nightly targets carefully, and do not necessarily target those that you have identified as your suspects during the day. That doesn't mean don't do it, but we want to keep the Wolf guessing as to who your target may be so that they do not see you as a safe kill.

Originally Posted by Glirdan

Now we're down to three unknown's ...

Originally Posted by dancing spawn

Tomorrow we'll have more unknowns than proved innocents left ...

No and no. There seems to be a bit of confusion as to who is innocent, who is unknown etc, so this is to clarify:

Today

Seer: malkatoj

Hunter: Glirdan

Wolf: The guy who be short

Known not to be Wolves, but may be the Cobbler:
The Saucepan Man
Mormegil
Formendacil
Nilpaurion Felagund

Unknown:
Dancing spawn of ungoliant
Kath
Garin
Gil-Galad

Tomorrow (assuming that malkatoj is killed tonight)

Hunter: Glirdan

Known not to be Wolves, but may be the Cobbler:
The Saucepan Man
Mormegil
Formendacil
Nilpaurion Felagund

Unknown:
Dancing spawn of ungoliant
Kath
Garin
Gil-Galad

That's five innocents (four of whom are possible Cobblers) and four unknowns.

Capiche?

[The Saucepan Man]

Well, Gil's not doing himself any favours.

Silly vote if he is a Wolf, but you never know with Gil ...!!

[Gil-Galad]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

Well, Gil's not doing himself any favours.

Silly vote if he is a Wolf, but you never know with Gil ...!!

well its hard for me, because if i voted for TGWBS, and he turned out to be innocent, then everyone who voted for him will be examined, but if he is a wolf and since i voted for someone else, i would examined as being a wolf so its hard...

so far my feelings are that Saucey, Guy and myself are not wolves, though i have been mistaken before...


i think the seer should dream of me to prove that i'm innocent, i don't want to be cannon-fodder for the town... though the shape is interesting, i don't enjoy being mush.

[Formendacil]

Thou callest ME a Cobbler, good Morm? I am heavily inclined to think YOU the Cobbler. And this is not petty retaliation or simple-minded vengeance, but a genuince perplexity at the different feeling I'm getting from you. You are NOT the usual, aggressive, vaguely annoying Morm of old- the Innocent Morm of old. You are, in fact, suspiciously quiet- for you- and you are flying under the radar a lot more than usual.

Kill me if you like, good village, but take Morm down with me. He deserves it.

[Glirdan]

I'd like to know whom you lot want me to dream of

I'm agreeing with this. I would like to know any idea's on whom I should go after. I will NOT say whom I will go after, I will merely choose and you will find out later on.

As for whom Malka should dream of, I believe that it should be either Kath or Gil; the two that have attracted the most suspicion as of late.

I must leave now for the rest of the Day. I will come back later on and check up, but not before the Day is over.

Oh, and Wolfy boy, may you rot in the halls of Mandos or wherever you're going. Good bye you scum!! Cailin's efforts were not completely in vain!!!

Good day all!!

[Garin]

Posted by SpM:Why do you still think there is any doubt here? TGWBS has admitted it

.
You and myself trusted him as innocent. I made my vote already, so it is obvious that I believe Malkatoj, I am simply covering my behind in case we are wrong.

Posted by Gil:sorry for me barely being on... but i read over everyone else and i would probably have to go for TGWBS, but i have a feeling he might be innocent... though my vote probably won't do much

Thanks for coming in and voting but this will not look good during the next day.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Originally Posted by Sauce

Capiche?

Si.

You see, I wrote that before I saw Glirdan's post where he admitted that he's the Hunter and voted. I edited his vote in my post, but forgot the other part.

Originally Posted by Gil

++Spawn

I feel special.

[Garin]

My posts at work have been miserable as I look at them, I will be silent for the rest of the day.

[malkatoj]

Mormegil: Malka, out of curiousity which order were the dreamt?

NIGHT 1: Formendacil, as determined by the roll of a 20-sided die
NIGHT 2: Mormegil, as chosen from a group of three who seemed worth dreaming of and chosen by a random number generator that my friend programmed
NIGHT 3: Nilp, because I couldn't stand not knowing
NIGHT 4: Saucepan Man, because I was about ready to determine that if he wasn't a wolf I would eat my pants...and that wouldn't taste good...luckily I dreamt of him before I got to the pants-eating point (notice he disappeared off my suspicious list and onto my innocent list)
NIGHT 5: TGWBS because I was suspicious of him to begin with, and his unfounded suspicion and accusation of Mormegil (whom I knew to be innocent) was getting to me.

So on the off chance that I'm not killed toNight, I'd like to know whom you lot want me to dream of, though I have a feeling that if you choose the wolf it'll solidify their wanting to kill me more than anything else. So don't tell me, and I'll choose from the unknowns the one whom I think would be most wolfishly inclined. So basically, ignore this paragraph.

Gil's vote bothers me. I still think he's the cobbler. I'm pretty sure the final wolf will vote TGWBS because it'd be dumb not to--any other votes will draw attention when there's a known wolf. Then again, he might be doing this to make us *think* he's not a wolf because it'd be too dumb for a wolf to do, when really he's a wolf and pulling a double-bluff. Hm.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Too bad Cailín was already dead when malkatoj declared herself. Since the Ranger and the Hunter can communicate, they could have distracted the Werewolves's efforts to kill the Seer by making the Hunter declare himself as the Ranger.

Comments on that?

Speaking of, I was louder than Cailín! That's bound never to happen again, though.

[Cailín]

Wow! For once I have been on the winning side! Great game, everyone - especially Malkatoj did an excellent job as the Seer.

Mormegil, I have been wondering for quite some time... how did you know I was Gifted? I did not intentionally leave any clues. Well, I don't like you anyway. Though it was probably for the best that I died then, because I was so convinced of the guy who be furry's innocence. Even worse, because he attacked Morm so violently I was actually convinced he was the Seer and had dreamed about Morm. I could not think of another reason why he would protect me like that. Ha - I'm so easily deluded.

Are you perhaps implying, Nilp, that you have merely killed me to be louder than me for once, huh?

I enjoyed PMing with you too Glirdy, though it didn't always work out. I actually spent most of the Days desperately trying to convince Glirdan Saucepan Man was in fact innocent... and then he eventually got me killed. The irony of being the Ranger...

Anyway - I protected Shelob, Saucy and TGWBS. Sorry about the last one.

[Garin]

Sauce: Oh, I know what I meant to ask. Wolves, did you spot Glirdan as the Hunter after Cailin's revelation?

TGBWS figured out Glirdan was the hunter and I accepted his reasoning. He was also right about Malk. Before he died, however, we still thought Form was the cobbler.
[

Valier: Aha!!! I knew you were a wolf Garin!! Sorry but I guess I will always suspect you....We should call a truse (sp.?) So was it you who got me killed?

Well, we all agreed to kill you. It, of course, had to pass by me because you had voted for me. I was willing to accept the flack. I figured, I'm so used to appearing lupine that appearing so obviously a wolf- people would figure I couldn't be a wolf. It almost worked. I was willing to stick out my neck to help the other wolves. Unfortunately, I didn't expect to be the last one. I accept your truce, we seem always at odds.

Naria, I now see that The Guy knew what he was doing. I think your silence killed you off. I did enjoy some of our PMs. It is not easy being a wolf.

[Lhunardawen]

Originally Posted by Nilp

morm--I didn't think you were a Cobbler until Lhuna told me her suspicions.

I felt that after having played with him in all but one game - not to mention falsely accusing him almost twice - I should have learned something...

And somehow I felt that Formendaga would do a better job than that were he the cobbler. Right?

tgwbw's no longer under the curse...it's you alone now, Nilp.

And Garin, geesh, how I envy you. Two out of three?

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Lhunardawen

And somehow I felt that Formendaga would do a better job than that were he the cobbler. Right?

Of course not. I wasn't lying in the slightest when I said:

"I'm somewhat insulted that some of you seem to think me a Cobbler. Seriously, do you honestly think I'd be such a blatantly obvious Cobbler? Give me some credit people! I may not be a genius, but I have some skill in this game... If I were being a Cobbler, I'd be as quiet, normal, and devious as I could be. And you have my full and explicit permission to drag up that quote against me in any future game."

And I stand by that...

[Garin]

Well, I'm currently repped-out. More to come.
And I almost forgot-- Accolades to Sauce for noting in my profile that I play poker. In retrospect I best get rid of that fact. It basically answers... Is Garin capable of bluffing?
Well, yes he is...

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Glirdan

Was I that blantantly obvious?? I thought I was doing a pretty good job, but, now, when I think about it, that post where I put down whom I thought was innocent was probably rather obvious.

Again, it wasn't down to anything that you did wrong. But so many people had accused and/or voted for Cailin that, crossing them and those who she had accused/voted for off and looking at those who had defended her/she had defended, there was really only a small pool to choose from (namely you and TGWBS).

Originally Posted by Glirdan

TGWBS, you had me going thinking you were the Seer for the longest time.

Yes, I had the guy who be cunning down as one of my candidates for Seer too. I didn't spot malka at all, even after she suddenly changed from wanting me dead to thinking me innocent. You see, rightly or wrongly, I work on the assumption that the Seer will dream of me early on and look for those who seem to think me innocent in the early stages. I suspect that a big dose of hubris is in order.

Originally Posted by Glirdan

I was wondering the exact same thing. Do tell. I was wondering when the heck I was going to be attacked because I had a feeling that after Cailin's death, I was a sure gonner.

It is always dangerous for the Wolves to attack the Hunter, especially with so many other known innocents, so I would guess that they thought that it was safer to go for one of those that couldn't harm them. The Hunter is an interesting role because, once declared, you become a known innocent who the Wolves are reluctant to kill. But then you don't get to use your special power.

Originally Posted by Aiwendil

Thanks. Saucepan's was post 107.

That's the one. I ddn't spot Nilp's message until Day 2 but, when I did, I really could not resist responding in kind. And it proved effective, since Nilp and I pretty much trusted each other from there on in.

Originally Posted by Garin

I figured, I'm so used to appearing lupine that appearing so obviously a wolf- people would figure I couldn't be a wolf. It almost worked.

Yup. You had me fooled for most of the game.

Originally Posted by Formendacil

So, in the interests of not ever finding myself in a similar rut, it was my intention to change up my playing style... Don't be predictable- that's my advice if you want to fool me completely.

I try. I really do. I tell myself that I am not going to post so frequently and at such length. And then I just get into the game and it happens.

Originally Posted by Lhuna

And Garin, geesh, how I envy you. Two out of three?

Tell me about it. I am convinced that I am destined never to be a Wolf. In fact, I am so used to playing a Villager now that I will probably make a dreadful Wolf as and when it does happen ...

Originally Posted by Formendacil

Of course not. I wasn't lying in the slightest when I said ...

Indeed. I took your comments that you would be playing very differently were you a Wolf or the Cobbler at face value, so I had pretty much crossed you off my suspect list even before malka's declaration.

Originally Posted by Garin

Accolades to Sauce for noting in my profile that I play poker.

I cannot take too much credit there. You pointed to it yourself during the game.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Here's Bethiril.

And here's Narvi.

Hehe, good times.

Oh, and a final note: This is the only game so far where I felt I was actually useful. Not exactly smart, but at least useful. Thanks, guys.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by mormegil

SpM what made you convinced of my cobblerishness?

I posted earlier:

Originally Posted by me

Once we got down to the double lynching discussions it became clear to me that morm was the Cobbler. An innocent morm would have been taking control, putting forward plans and generally being much more vocal.

To expand a bit, I found it strange that you rejected the idea of a double lynch on the day that malka exposed TGWBS. You are normally up for a good double lynch and, as spawn's analysis showed, it would have been to the innocents' advantage. Then, the next day, when we were all basically agreed on a double lynch, you just sat back and let me do all the orchestrating (or try to ), which was most un-morm-like. I would have expected you to be doing a lot more organising. By that stage, I was pretty sure that you were the Cobbler, although it was not long before you confirmed it.

[Garin]

Now I have a question for TGWBS and Garin: If you guys were positive that I was the Hunter, why didn't you kill me then?? Is it because you thought that Malka was the Seer? Because that wouln't really make sense if you knew with certainity that I was the Hunter and instead of taking two innocents (one Gifted) down in one blow you chose to take down Malka

.
It is really a case of paranoia. In the beginning The Guy said I was doomed, I didn't expect to last. I was saved by the double-bluffing and then that filthy little Malkatoj showed up. I was resigned to being the wolf for the sake of the other wolves. I was certain that you (Glirdan) would pick me especially after we killed Cailin. We needed to take the seer out, once we discovered her identity. Trust me, I wanted to kill Glirdan instantly, upon discovery. But, I wanted to kill everyone.
I respected TGBWS 's propositions and deeply regret following more of a road of vengeance than reason. Of course, I think I am born more wolvish than innocent, so those are aspects of my character I need to examine and refine.

[the guy who be short]

In response to Glirdan:

I only figured out, with certainty, that you were the Hunter on Day 4. At Night 5, we wolves didn't have much time to discuss anything due to RL situations, so we took out Marco, thinking she was the Seer.

After that, Night 6, The Seer was the obvious target.

And, after that, Garin feared you would take him with you.

[Meneltarmacil]

Had the wolves attacked Glirdan on the Night that he and Cailín were protecting/hunting SpM, the following would happen.

1. Glirdan tries to kill Saucepan.
2. Cailín fights off Glirdan.
3. Wolves kill Glirdan.

I was hoping the wolves killed Glirdy that Night, as I'd have had fun writing the death scene.

Actually...

Glirdan looked around to make sure he wasn't going to be followed. He crept up to the house of the villager that he was hunting and drew his bow.

Just as he was about to shoot the villager, a masked figure dressed all in black lept from the roof and landed on him, knocking him to the ground.

"You!" shouted Glirdan. "This villager is a wolf! Get out of my way!"

The masked figure refused to move. "I'm not letting you kill an innocent tonight," said the Ranger.

As Glirdan stood wondering what to do next, three shadows bolted out of nowhere. Whether or not one of them had been the hunted/protected villager was impossible to tell. Glirdan tried to fire an arrow, but it all happened so fast. The wolves hauled the Hunter off into the woods, where they devoured him.

[Glirdan]

Ooooo!!!! How pleasently evil of you!! Now I wish they would have killed me that Night!! Btw Cailin, thanks for standing by while I get devoured!

Thank you Wolves for answering me. It makes complete sense now. Thank you!!