'Which is as Fate to all Things Else’

[Aiwendil]

Gurthang wrote:

If all that Men do is already set in stone by Eru, then he had already put into his plan that they would 'rebel'.

This assumes that "all that Men do is already set in stone by Eru" - which seems, to me, to be quite unsupported by the text. Even setting aside the (strong) argument that a world without free will contradicts Tolkien's Christian ethos, it seems clear from the Ainulindale that Men are free. This is actually made even more evident in the first version, the Lost Tales "Music of the Ainur", and I see no reason to think that the underlying idea ever changed.

A certain flood from the Bible is coming to mind.

But, on anything like a traditional interpretation of Genesis, the flood was not part of God's original plan. God's original plan was for humans to live in the earthly paradise of Eden.

Davem wrote:

My argument (following Flieger) has been that Elvish freedom is restricted to the moral sphere.

This is one place in which Flieger's argument makes little sense to me. Flieger seems to take it for granted that Elves do not have free will - i.e. their actions are pre-determined. But Flieger clearly thinks that they have moral freedom, and she seems to allow them freedom with respect to their immediate actions (which she must do, because such immediate actions generally follow from one's internal/moral stance). But there are numerous cases in which an Elf's immediate, short-term actions have very clear and direct large-scale results. It seems too far a stretch to me to say that, had Feanor not urged departure at Tirion, the Noldor still would have returned to Middle-earth, or that had Maeglin not betrayed Gondolin it still would have fallen, or that had Thingol not sent Beren on his quest he still would have been slain in a quarrel with the Dwarves.

Flieger's entire argument here seems to be based on the "extra" freedom given to Men in the Ainulindale - from which she surmises that Men have free will and Elves do not. I do not think this is a trivial conclusion. It seems to me that Elves do have free will, moral and actual. There are other ways to interpret the additional freedom given to Men.