Who or What is Tom Bombadil?

[Aiwendil]

Squatter wrote:

Since Tom remembers the dark beneath the stars when it was fearless, Varda's star-kindling must have taken place before his memory begins, and therefore he was not alive when the Dark Lord originally entered Arda, first of all the Valar.

Why? It seems to me that his memory could have begun before the star-kindling even if he remembers that later age. I remember yesterday even though my memory begins before yesterday. Another point to be noted is that there were stars, dimmer and more feeble, before Varda's great star-kindling.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

It seems to me that his memory could have begun before the star-kindling even if he remembers that later age

This is true, but it would seem odd for Tolkien to write some dialogue that seems intended to demonstrate a character's great age but which makes no reference at all to his presumed earlier memories.

As for the kindling of the stars, my knowledge of the Silmarillion material never was that amazing; perhaps it's time that I read it again.

My main point remains the same: Tom Bombadil is none of the above: he's a character who had nothing to do with Middle-earth at the outset, and who therefore was never assigned a satisfactory place in that reality. To look for one seems to be to forget that Tolkien's Middle-earth is invented, and that he freely admitted its imperfection. My reaction to some of the more common Tolkien imponderables has always been that they tend to be totally disproportionate, concentrating on really quite unimportant details of the story. Tom Bombadil's origins are less boring than Legolas' hair or Balrog wings, but there's still no answer, and surely his role in the narrative is clear enough. Does it really matter that we can't fit him neatly into Tolkien's world? I also wanted to point out the opinion of Christopher Tolkien, who is quite definite about the two alternatives I outlined in my previous post. My own view is very nearly 'who cares?', but when I turned up that information in HoME VI I remembered this and other discussions.

[Raynor]

Another point to be noted is that there were stars, dimmer and more feeble, before Varda's great star-kindling.

It is worth noting that the these first stars seem to be made also by Varda, as seen in the Silmarillion/Annals of Aman:

Originally Posted by Of the begining of days

But as the ages drew on to the hour appointed by Iluvatar for the coming of the Firstborn, Middle-earth lay in a twilight beneath the stars that Varda had wrought in the ages forgotten of her labours in Ea

(although in the great reshaping of Myths transformed, HoME X, Tolkien states that she couldn't have done that, since the 'general' stars do not concern "the Valar of Arda").

[A_Brandybuck]

Originally Posted by The Squatter of Amon Rûdh

This is true, but it would seem odd for Tolkien to write some dialogue that seems intended to demonstrate a character's great age but which makes no reference at all to his presumed earlier memories.

Under the circumstance, that the Professor himself said, that good old Tom is an enigma, and under the circumstance, that Tom is still an enigma for us, because decades of discussions have brought no result, I would say, that nothing is odd concerning Tolkien's formulation. ;-)

[Elu Ancalime]

Well, of course he had to develop Tom. Frodo and Co. couldnt have met Mr Enigma, for then he couldnt have development of all. So while Tolkien created him as an enigma, I believe that he developed his character to be an enigma, also. So he is Enigma-twofold, in his literary concept, and actual characterzation. There can be no rebuke against his literary standard.
________
HONDA GL500

[davem]

The most interesting thing about Tom is that even those who dislike him don't 'disbelieve' in him. For such readers he's like a real person, but one who gets on their nerves, so they avoid him. One thing they can't deny is that, as in Goldberry's words: 'He is.'

Of course, we're all 'enigmas' - most of us even to ourselves. We can no more explain the 'madness' of TB than we can explain our own eccentricities. We are all 'silly' at times, & maybe we could divide the human race into those who can accept (even enjoy) their own silliness, those who deny it, & those attempt to explain it away, or provide some kind of 'psychological' explanation.

I suspect that the second group (the deniers of their own silliness) turn away from TB in contempt, the third group (the 'explainers) are the ones who construct elaborate 'theories' about TB (he's a Maiar, he's Eru, he's Tolkien himself, etc, etc). The first group, though, are the ones who can just accept him & follow his mad song through the Old Forest to his house, step over the threshold, find a golden light all about them and the table all laden with yellow cream, honeycomb, and white bread and butter....

As Chesterton put it 'The true object of all human life is play. Earth is a task garden; Heaven is a playground.'

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

For anyone who hasn't seen this, Tom is actually The Witch-King of Angmar.

[narfforc]

I always find it fascinating when the question of Bombadil comes up, that no-one asks who Goldberry is, or more precise her mother The River-woman. All three of these characters are enigmatic, when, where and who are words that are used if mentioning their names. The River-woman was supposed to live in a deep pool of The Withywindle. Now I know of no other being than one of the spirits (Ainur), which lives under water, could Goldberry be the daughter of Uinen?. If The River-woman was human, then there is a good chance Goldberry would also be. This would mean Goldberry being a wife for a fleeting moment. Could The River-woman be Elven, for Goldberry is described as a young elf-queen. I think all three are spirits, let me quote from The Silmarillion:

With the Valar came other spirits whose being also began before the World, of the same order as the Valar but of less degree. These are the Maiar, the people of the Valar, and their servents and helpers. Their number is not known to the Elves, and few have names in any of the tongues of the Children of Iluvatar; for though it is otherwise in Aman, in Middle-earth the Maiar have seldom appeared in form visible to Elves and Men.

Seldom does not mean never, and Bombadil came first anyway, and alone. Other than the Five Istari which are named, there were others who came with them which may have also been Maiar, another thing the Elves knew not the number of. The Valaraukar/Balrogs (Gothmog) and Ungoliant are named as Maiar. I believe Bombadil was one of the Ainur, of what degree I know not, yet he is called the Master by Goldberry. Does Master in this sense mean in control, if so of what. Could Eru have sent Iarwain Ben-adar to guard the Secret Fire/Flame Imperishable at the very creation of Ea?. Does not the words Ea, the World that Is not also reflect Goldberry's He Is answer to the hobbits, when asked who Tom Bombadil was. This could also answer the question of why Tom was there before Melkor, when the world as such was still sleeping. Gandalf feared that Tom would fall Last as he was the First, why was he the first. The riddle of who Bombadil is, can only be answered by why he is.