LotR2-TTT-Seq03

[Lathriel]

One thing I like of this sequence is that not much is revealed of the golden hall. That happens later when Gandalf and co. arrive which gives you a chance to see it for the first time just as the characters do.

Whoever played Theodred had an easy time, he just had to lie there.

Barad-dur looks awesome. Although we laready saw it in the first movie I think we see it more closely this time around. The heroes get closer so we get a closer look to what they are up against.

For me the re-hashing scene of the destruction of Isengard wasn't completely neccessary. (Seeing them make all those weapons AGAIN) However, I did think that the whole Dunlending part was pretty cool.We also get our first look of Fangorn forest. I liked it that they put in the extra part about cutting the trees because it makes the part at the end (Treebeard, "I have known these trees...") make more sense.

Grima is rather creepy, Brad Dourif actually shaved his eye brows (LOL).

[Essex]

I've forgotten hopw good the EE TT is. a lot of extra scenes here that add to the depth and atmosphere of the films.

so well filmed, the shot of the fords of isen, saruman walking past his orcs looking proud, the first entrance of Grima, the drop of the orcs helmet by grima's feet.

the tree falling through the hole in the grouns down to the pits below looks SO real, even after countless viewings.

The only thing I don;t like is the woman with her two kids - errrrgggghhh! it's so corny! 'I WILL find you!!!' - and the overacting from the girl on the horse - it does my head in!!!

the scrawl on eomer's warrant looks very much like Theoden's hand to me - totally out of control - just a scrawl across the paper.......

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Essex

The only thing I don;t like is the woman with her two kids - errrrgggghhh! it's so corny! 'I WILL find you!!!' - and the overacting from the girl on the horse - it does my head in!!!

Like I said, I think that PJ was playing heavy-handedly as he really wanted us to be scared of this extermination force of Saruman's. One way to do this was to personalize it, and so we get the names of two children, and we see one pulling at her mother. Like in later scenes, PJ goes from the wide shot to the zoomed in view.

the scrawl on eomer's warrant looks very much like Theoden's hand to me - totally out of control - just a scrawl across the paper.......

Inevitably, when sitting in a lecture, I'd start to drift off towards sleep. My notes would show "sleep lines" - scrawl lines down the the page where my pen went south.

[Tuor of Gondolin]

There is a problem here, touched on above, in the
movie version of Rohan's defense. In the book there
are effective (relatively small) Rohannic forces in the
east and especially in the west (the West Emnet being
partially mobilized). At no time, even after the Disaster
at the Fords of Isen could Saruman's forces roam totally unopposed
thorughout at least western Rohan. Yet in the movie there
are virtually no forces (even Theoden later brings a bare (100?)
or so with him west, but then suddenly later at the muster of
Rohan thousands of fighters pop up! Of course, PJ is trying
the gambit of portraying impossible odds, but in, for
example, Karen Forsted's encyclopedia it's calculated the
odds at Helm's Deep (sorry to jump ahead) are about
10,000 to 2,000 or so, not the upsurd odds in the movie.
As noted above, where's the kids daddy? If off fighting, then
why wasn't the village evacuated?

[JennyHallu]

Perhaps the father is a soldier, and had already been off with the army for sometime. Perhaps the child had no father, considering the past history of orkish raids in the area. Perhaps he was just too busy preparing for his cameo as a Corsair in the next movie.

And 2000 to 10000 is pretty hellish odds, Tuor. When you have a force of 10,000 marching through your countryside, no force of 100 has any way to stand. If that was the basic unit size of Theoden's army, then the muster of Rohan was absolutely necessary. No point needlessly sacrificing men to defend an indefensible land, gather everyone to you in a central, defensible position the enemy cannot ignore. And is the 2000 figure from your encyclopedia before or after the arrival of Helm?

[Tuor of Gondolin]

I don't have the book with me, I'll try to have the
section tomorrow. Yes, 5-1 odds are daunting, but
when you also have the advantage of defense
at Helm's Deep and to retreat into the caves not,
at least in the short run, impossible. Recall that in
the book the defense is quite successful until the
explosives blow up a hole, and even then there is
an effective charge, not the two or three horsemen of the movie.
The thing is,the movie depiction stretches credulity by not even
suggesting the appearance of local defensive forces in the Westfold.
Where is the contingency planning which a younger, able
Theoden would have had prepared, and which Theodred
Eomer, Grimbold, etc. would have
implemented? Recall that in the movie it's only the
smallish Edoras population that is taken to Helm's Deep.
But in the book it's people of the West Emnet who flock there.

[JennyHallu]

I thought the movie was more believable. To my mind, attempting to defend the West Emnet is an impossible task...look at a map. West Emnet depends on Orthanc to be defensible. There are no natural defenses against Saruman.

And how do you know that the straggling refugees from West Emnet didn't try to defend themselves before fleeing? Maps don't give us any large settlements there...the inhabitants would have been crushed. Perhaps PJ gives us a more, not less, hopeful situation. In the movie, there were survivors from the West of Rohan.

And while PJ did paint the defense of Helm's Deep in terrible and desperate colors, it was a last stand. It was intended to be desperate. It was intended that the arrival of the Trees and Gandalf with the dawn should feel like the ultimate reminder of hope, and the last gleam of light before Sauron's darkness overfell the land. I never felt it to be a terribly possible thing, even in the book. That was why their arrival was wonderful.