Dragon-Fire

[JennyHallu]

I tend to be pure scientist on things like this. Without experimentation, you have no truth. I agree that you are meant to accept Gandalf's word on the matter blindly, but my question is How did he know that Sauron's ring wouldn't melt in dragon fire? Obviously, since he didn't have it, he didn't set it in front of Ancalagon the Black and say "exhale, please" but he was still certain that it couldn't be destroyed that way. Why? Sauron's hand was on the dwarven rings too...

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

In the absence of any precise data about the Rings of Power, and faced with the impossibility of conducting a physical experiment, I should rule out science on this question. Obviously Tolkien's concern was with the narrative situation created by the Rings of Power, and clearly his decision that the Ruling Ring could only be destroyed in Orodruin was made so that there would be no alternative for his characters but to take it there.

That being said, my guess would be that the One is harder to destroy than the Seven because more of Sauron's native power and will are embodied in it. The Seven and the Nine are merely trinkets to be used for the recruitment of new servants, but the Ruling Ring is for Sauron's hand alone, and its destruction, as we know, is a grave blow. Therefore, the dragons being loose cannon at the best of times, Sauron had a good reason to make his Ring impervious to their fire; and because he embodies more of his own spirit and will in it, the One is in any case likely to be harder to destroy. Far be it from me to speak for Tolkien, but that would seem to be the logical basis of Gandalf's speculation.

[JennyHallu]

Thank you, I'm satisfied now...

A further query however...Do you think that Dragon-fire could melt Narya?

[Naria]

Aaaagh

Melt me? NO not me anything but me!!

Sorry I couldn't help it....good question though

[Farael]

Originally Posted by JennyHallu

I tend to be pure scientist on things like this. Without experimentation, you have no truth.

Well, that's not quite accurate... you can find the truth by merely observation, think about Biology. You can take a bunch of monkeys into a zoo and run experiments on them, but if you want to know how monkeys live in the wild you can only go out there and just watch.

It could be the same thing with Gandalf and the dwarven rings... not only he's been around for quite a bit, but we could asume his 'sight' (mind's eye) goes far beyond what humans or elves can see... maybe he 'saw' it happen and thus he 'knew'... or maybe, and even more simply, the story has been passed down the generations and so he did know. Archeology is a science too if I'm not mistaken and they work with part history part circumstantial evidence. Sort of like a Werewolf game, without people getting lynched =P

With the One Ring is a bit more tricky... as there is only one that has evidently not been destroyed. Even more so, as far as we know no-one has even tried. How does Gandalf know? well, the 'mind's eye' thing comes quite handly... he was a Maiar and so he knew. Other than that, maybe it was because of the forging of the ring... since it was forged in the hottest place on Middle Earth, anything short than that would just not be hot enough.

My personal thought is that last one... as the ring was forged in Mt. Doom it could only be destroyed there.

[Essex]

Also, Gandalf was an emissary of the Valar.

Do you think they sent him off blind to defeat Sauron or do you reckon they gave him a bit of background information before?

you know, 'you have to destroy the Ring of Power - only way to do it is to unmake it in the fires of mount doom' etc.......

they did send him off after the Ring was made didn't they? I can't remember if gandalf arrived after Sauron's Ring was lost.......?

[Raynor]

they did send him off after the Ring was made didn't they?

Sauron made the One Ring in the year 1600 of the Second Age, (which lasted for ~1841 years more); at about 1000 years into the Third Age, the Istari reach Middle-Earth (cf Tale of Years, ROtK).

Do you think they sent him off blind to defeat Sauron or do you reckon they gave him a bit of background information before?

I don't think they had much detailed information. The istari were Sauron's peers (in nature and strength - or at least before they were embodied) so they knew each other anyway; moreover, their sending was "a mere prudent plan of the angelic Valar" (only at about 2060 do the istari fear his return).