Il Principe (of Beleriand...)

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Kuruharan

What sort of culture am I ideally aiming for?
A hardy, adventurous sea-faring folk who have no interest whatsoever in going north. All exploring and fun stuff should take place in the sunny south.

Sounds like the ideal culture to survive in your First Age, Kuru, would have been the Californian surfer set...

Sorry, I'll let you all get back to your serious discussions.

[Kuruharan]

would have been the Californian surfer set

I said hardy and adventurous not...well, maybe I better not continue that thought.

Yes, I know the Californians will now want to kill me.

[Anguirel]

Well, Kuru has chosen one extreme, and alatar has, in large part, followed him. Let me declare my own position. It will come as surprise to few, but it may provoke some duelling...

1. How do I best resist Morgoth?

Most answers so far have been of the "cringe, cringe, Dark Lord, don't hurt me and I won't hurt you, not that I even could" variety. I would dissent from them. Our prince is a Noldo, not some kind of Vanya! Of course, alatar, you're free to advocate shunning active resistance, but I don't see the point.

There is a Norse saying "A brave man dies once, a coward many times." Destruction will come to the Noldor, flee they ever so far. Best to weather the storm!

I suggest-build up grand alliances with Elves of whatever stamp, if at all possible. Swear an oath of mutual respect (like that sworn by the Greek princes of the Iliad). Foster connections with Men and Naugrim. With unity, the free peoples of Beleriand could have been greater than a thousand Valarin relief forces!


2. How friendly should I be with Thingol?

Stop short of actual homage-such a debasement might alienate subjects and Noldorin allies. However, offer Thingol help whenever he requires it, and send help even if he refuses it. Kinslayer or not, you need to prove your worth against the common enemy. Learn Sindarin and accept Sindar and Nandor subjects.


3. How far should I co-operate with my valiant, elficidal jewel-seeking relatives?

Sad though it makes me, I can see some of Feanor's sons, Celegorm and Curufin, are beyond the diplomatic pale. However, this should not hinder good relations with Maedhros and Maglor, the hunters Amrod and Amras, and even Caranthir-a wealthy and far-sighted ruler.

Do not attempt to claim Silmarils for self. Do not co-operate with Silmaril grabbers of any description. Do not help insane Silmaril-snatching expeditions led by the Sons of Feanor, unless they serve the wider purpose of defeating Morgoth.


5. What sort of site would be good for my kingdom?

I would be inclined to head east over the Ered Luin, or in the Ered Luin themselves. A mountain stronghold could be held with a network of caves beneath it. Co-operation with the Naugrim would therefore be essential. No Hidden City vibe, just hold the place by force of arms. Position it some way south of Himring so Maedhros faces your enemies before you do...maybe some manipulation of mountain rivers would add to defensive capabilities...


6. What do I do about Dwarves and Men?
Dwarves, as seen above, are vital allies, doughty in battle, excellent smiths and Dragon-slayers too. No height-jokes or Petty-Dwarf hunting.

As for Men, protect tribes dwelling in your region and they will be grateful, but maintain a certain distance. You really don't want them to get involved too deeply in your affairs. Their short lives stir up the Doom of Mandos.


7. What sort of culture am I ideally aiming for?

A grim, fell, taciturn people, skilled in siegecraft, engineering and swordplay. Not exclusively Noldor; Green-elves and Sindar welcome if they can stand mountain life and put up with Dwarves. Probably not that much in the way of romance, music or art, sadly. Trained to kill enemies of any sort that get too near.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Anguirel

Of course, alatar, you're free to advocate shunning active resistance, but I don't see the point.

Active resistance? I think that we know where that will lead (read the Sil). My activity is survival at almost all costs. I'm using the insect model. Camoflague, so that we cannot be detected, and generalization, where any group can restart the colony.

We saw Fingolfin fall, and though the Naugrim were brave, Glaurung's fire still burned in Beleriand. And what did Hurin's bravery buy him?

There is a Norse saying "A brave man dies once, a coward many times." Destruction will come to the Noldor, flee they ever so far. Best to weather the storm!

Another said, "Dead men tell no tales," and I would had, 'have no children.' A prudent person realizes that some pursuits are futile, and so adapts. As you sit in the Halls of Mandos you can be reading about my peoples in the future (I'll send progress reports), and we will sing songs about your brave dead. Thanks for giving Morgoth something else to do so that he left us alone.

I suggest-build up grand alliances with Elves of whatever stamp, if at all possible. Swear an oath of mutual respect (like that sworn by the Greek princes of the Iliad). Foster connections with Men and Naugrim. With unity, the free peoples of Beleriand could have been greater than a thousand Valarin relief forces!

And how is this different than what occurred? With all of those alliances and the ilk, someone does something 'wrong,' and the lies of Morgoth start to take hold, then suddenly it becomes a big mess. Wasn't that the Nirnaeth Arnoediad?

[Kuruharan]

I would be inclined to head east over the Ered Luin

You're not going to be in a good position for active resistance from waaay over there.

or in the Ered Luin themselves. A mountain stronghold could be held with a network of caves beneath it.

You are going to have to rethink this. The dwarves would not allow it. The Blue Mountains were their personal stomping ground and they were spread all up and down those mountains. They would probably fight you rather than let you establish another kingdom there to compete with them for resources. They would probably also be less than happy about having a power that would be so obvious a target for Morgoth in their midst.

[drigel]

You're not going to be in a good position for active resistance from waaay over there.

Forget Beleriand altogether. Head east of the Blue Mnts and set up an initial residency somewhere between the Blue's and the Misty's. There, you spend a few hundred years, both intercepting / interceding Morgoths agents of influence, and fostering the latecomers. See if you can make a difference in the numbers of men that were wooed and allied into Morgoth's service.

Build up ranks of Avari and humans. Migrate en masse west over the Blue mountains. Claim squatter's rights in Himlad or other East Beleriand tracts. Attack massively at once, blowing it all as soon as possible, before the lies of M start nibbling at the edges of your society. Keep fingers crossed. Buy funeral insurance.

[Kuruharan]

Head east of the Blue Mnts and set up an initial residency somewhere between the Blue's and the Misty's. There, you spend a few hundred years, both intercepting / interceding Morgoths agents of influence, and fostering the latecomers. See if you can make a difference in the numbers of men that were wooed and allied into Morgoth's service.

Actually, that might not be such a mad idea. However, you'd have to be wary of the humans because some of them might be Morgoth's servants already. I think the greatest danger to this scheme would be internal revolt.

Build up ranks of Avari and humans. Migrate en masse west over the Blue mountains. Claim squatter's rights in Himlad or other East Beleriand tracts. Attack massively at once, blowing it all as soon as possible, before the lies of M start nibbling at the edges of your society. Keep fingers crossed. Buy funeral insurance.

I'm afraid the lies of Morgoth would already be nibbling well before this.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Anguirel

I would be inclined to head east over the Ered Luin, or in the Ered Luin themselves. A mountain stronghold could be held with a network of caves beneath it. Co-operation with the Naugrim would therefore be essential. No Hidden City vibe, just hold the place by force of arms. Position it some way south of Himring so Maedhros faces your enemies before you do...maybe some manipulation of mountain rivers would add to defensive capabilities...

Not to pile on, but adding to what Kuruharan has already stated, but your mountain fortress would be prone to siege, and unless you can eat rocks...Even Morgoth was smart enough (or lucky enough) to have a back door.