LotR2-TTT-Seq04

[Farael]

About the running shot:
Ok, just looked again. On the first shot of the Orcs running, you can only see the bigger ones (Isengard's) but on the second, when they sort of fly over them you can somewhat tell that there are two types. The Orcs from Isengard form the front rows and somewhat keep themselves in three columns, while smaller orcs (Mordor?) run on the back of the column and sort of bunch up, not keeping ranks.

About the third group of orcs,
would you tell me when you see them? I can only see two groups, the big ones and small ones. It might be a cross-over with the book. If I'm not mistaken, there are three groups of orcs, the Uruk-Hai that want to take the hobbits to Isengard, the ones from Mordor that want to take them to... well, yeah... and the ones from Moria who want revenge for the orcs the fellowship killed.

About setting up camp
I beg to differ, I still think they are just starting a fire. It might be another cross over with the book, in which we know they stop because the Riders have corraled them. Anyhow, the Riders come in before they get a chance to really do anything that will give us evidence either way.

About Gimli
Let me make an ammendment... I think Gimli is kept consistent over the last two movies of the triology.

About the Rohirrim and the ring of spears (which I forgot to comment on last time around)
I am not a great medieval-times warrior, but I can see the sense in doing such thing. If you are standing close to a bunch of guys who have absolutely no way out, you want to keep them at a spear's lenght from you.

I mean, should the strangers feel that they are going to die anyway, they might charge at anyone who is unprepared and try to take as many down as they can. At such close range, using an arrow would not be too smart (in spite of what Legolas does) given that if you have your spear handy, you can give them a little (fatal) poke even before they manage to draw and aim. At the same time, to kill someone with a sword you need to get relatively close to them... much closer than a spear's lenght anyway.

So maybe it is a logical thing to do after all? as I said, I know nothing about medieval warfare, and I am making an explanation based on what I see in the movie... Personally, and given that we know they have (Very good) archers, I would say you make the ring big enough for the defenders to have time to get their spears at the ready and aim at the strangers with your archers. Same effect, even less chance of giving them an oportunity to hurt you. But then, it's also less dramatic, and thus less useful for movie purposes

A parting shot

Originally Posted by Alatar

Nice observation, but his conversion from foe to friend is a bit fast, and so why include the thought? Is PJ trying to squeeze more stuff in than time warrants? I have some scenes that he could cut that would allow for more time...

(my emphasis)

Do those scenes include a certain dwarf making certain comments about running long distances?

[alatar]

Here's that orc wood chopper to which I referred.

Why orcs have to remove their shirts/armor before swinging an axe is beyond me.

**Note that the first image was captured in "The Burning of the Westfold" whereas the second is from "Night Camp at Fangorn."

[alatar]

Nice post, Farael, and well organized (unlike mine ).

Originally Posted by Farael

About the third group of orcs,
would you tell me when you see them? I can only see two groups, the big ones and small ones. It might be a cross-over with the book. If I'm not mistaken, there are three groups of orcs, the Uruk-Hai that want to take the hobbits to Isengard, the ones from Mordor that want to take them to... well, yeah... and the ones from Moria who want revenge for the orcs the fellowship killed.

To me there are three distinct types:

• the Uruks, as denoted by armor, long hair, White Hand insignia, taller, etc,

• the Mordorians, best seen when the Uruks come upon the "you're late" group of orcs, and also the same "what about their legs?" guy who is more hunched over, does that quirky head-jerking thing and is a shade of brown, and doesn't seem the warrior type,

• the Morians, who are smaller, lighter gray and are like the nasally "Ya!" orc who I think makes a try at the hobbits and so becomes 'the other white meat'...

I'll try to capture some images for comparison.

I beg to differ, I still think they are just starting a fire. It might be another cross over with the book, in which we know they stop because the Riders have corraled them. Anyhow, the Riders come in before they get a chance to really do anything that will give us evidence either way.

Again to me it's too organized. Are they cold? Are they going to cook some maggoty toast? Why would they want to give away their location, attracting Rohirrim like moths? In the book, the fires were 'watch-fires' and I'm not sure who set them (I'll see what I can dig up on my CDs). My guess is that PJ was trying to hammer home the message "orcs chop trees" and had to devise a way to get that in. "Have them make a fire or something...we just have to set up the treeslayers for retribution later from the Ents."

About the Rohirrim and the ring of spears (which I forgot to comment on last time around)
I am not a great medieval-times warrior, but I can see the sense in doing such thing. If you are standing close to a bunch of guys who have absolutely no way out, you want to keep them at a spear's lenght from you.

I understand what you're saying, and would have thought it odd for a medieval warrior to spend so much time on the internet while other wonders abound , but my point is that you have everyone in very close proximity. If I were a spellcaster, or had one of those spikey bombs that the Uruks will use later, I'm taking out the whole troop. And though I'm sure that these are riders of many summers, still, one guy in the back sneezes, and everyone, being spooked already enough by an Elf, a Man and a natural sprinter, jumps forward, and I'm guessing that the casualties would number more than three.

Do those scenes include a certain dwarf making certain comments about running long distances?

There are more horrid scenes on the way, to be sure.

[JennyHallu]

Fire can be used as a weapon. Perhaps they hoped that the horses of the Rohirrim could be frightened or stayed with fire.

Maybe they were just orkses, and not terribly bright.

[Farael]

Originally Posted by JennyHallu

Fire can be used as a weapon. Perhaps they hoped that the horses of the Rohirrim could be frightened or stayed with fire.

Maybe they were just orkses, and not terribly bright.

Good point but... I Think in the movie they were not aware of the Rohirrim.

[alatar]

But the orcs knew that they were being pursued by 'manflesh,' and that's why they double-timed it across the plains of Rohan (instead of taking a more leasurely pace, stopping at times for picnics and croquet).

The wild men and orcs burn the village huts, and we'll see that the orcs will use the 'fire of Orthanc' to breach the wall at Helm's Deep, and later the siege of Gondor will have fire launched from catapults, but I don't think that the orcs use fire for less lethal purposes.