the doom of the ring?? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Tenduriel · 02-08-2003, 07:21 AM

do you think that those who are deceived by the Ring are guilty themselves, or are they just unlucky to become slaves of Saurons will? and what do you think: would there be a dark lord in the 4th age too?

namárië

Eruwen · 02-08-2003, 10:43 AM

Quote:

would there be a dark lord in the 4th age too?

Well, it depends on whether someone very powerful switches to the "dark side", if I may say it in that way. The first Dark lord, Melkor, did that. I think the only reason there was another dark lord after him was because Sauron started out kind of like Melkor's apprentice.

Sauron learned from Melkor and thus decided to take over after Melkor was defeated. Now Saruman would have been the likely choice to be the next dark lord if it hadn't of been for him getting killed. So it's kind of up in arms at who would be the next.

But think of this, no world's perfect. Sadly, not even Middle Earth is. There always was someone wanting to screw everything up, and there always will be. That's just how it is.

Evenstar1069 · 02-08-2003, 01:19 PM

I think there would be another dark lord. Like Eruwen said, there's always someone wanting to screw things up. It all depends on how powerful whoever wants to is.

InklingElf · 02-08-2003, 02:06 PM

Where there is a candle, there is light but there is also a shadow.

Inderjit Sanghera · 02-08-2003, 02:17 PM

No-Sauron was the last non-Human single incarnation of evil. There would be no more Dark Lords.

Jurion · 02-08-2003, 02:30 PM

Indeed, Inderjit is right. Sauron was the last true Dark Lord. There is still evil, no doubt about it. But after Sauron there only were humans. Sauron was the last non-human, true incarnation of evil.

Eruwen · 02-08-2003, 03:25 PM

What about Wizards? For instance, what if Gandalf suddenly decided to go bad? Couldn't he wreck havok on Middle Earth? He has the power.

MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie · 02-08-2003, 05:12 PM

I don't think it is their fault that the ring corrupts them, so I don't think there should be any guilt, but then, there might be. Like Boromir, I really think he felt guilty for trying to take the ring, even though the ring used his ignorance and ather negative qualities. That's what I think.

Tate Aisling · 02-08-2003, 05:58 PM

*waves* Heya. Thought I'd drop in. Question though! Who the heck is Melkor? I haven't been able to read all the books yet, since my dad is so stingy! So, from what everyone is saying, I take it he taught Sauron?

And, indeed, what about the wizards? If Sauroman can go bad, they all can right? So if one that is really powerful like Gandalf decides to turn to the "dark side", that would make him the next dark lord, right?

...One last question if I may. If Sauron wasn't human with really ugly armor, what was he?

Gorwingel · 02-08-2003, 07:03 PM

They talk all about Melkor in the Silmarillion. If you have not read it, then you would know nothing about him. He came before Sauron, he was even more evil than Sauron, because he had more power. Melkor was his orginal name (when he was a Vala), but he is later known as Morgoth. Sauron was a servent of Melkor. After Melkor was defeated Sauron took over the task (having complete dominion over Middle Earth) that Melkor had always been striving for.

InklingElf · 02-08-2003, 10:39 PM

Who is Melkor?: 'Melkor' is the true name of the first Dark Lord,Morgoth, and is used for him from his beginning until his theft of the Silmarils.

I hope that helps, but it would be better if you read the Silmarillion.

Deathwail · 02-09-2003, 03:44 AM

The Malice of Morgoth lives on in Middle Earth even though he has been cast out into the dark void so though Sauron is defeated there is nothing to say Morgoth cant work his black mojo on someone in the later Ages.Silmarillion is pretty clear about the fact that though Melkor cant himself walk middle earth he can still impose his will on it.

Inderjit Sanghera · 02-09-2003, 06:36 AM

Also, if Melkor's's spirit was destroyed then Arda would be destroyed too, because so much of his power has passed into it.

Tenduriel · 02-09-2003, 07:38 AM

gee thanks y'all! that's some answers indeed. another question: what is the definition of a dark lord actually? is it some-one who is (taught) by the Most Evil One? then you could say that there wouldn't be a dark lord in the 4th Age. but if a dark lord is anyone with enough forces to resist the powers of the Istari (wizards like Gandalf) then the Istari themselves could. try to imagine what would happen if all the wizards would turn evil!!

Inderjit Sanghera · 02-09-2003, 08:24 AM

There were only ever two 'dark lords'-Sauron and Melkor. I think that only soemone of great potency and power can be classified as a dark lord, who had a substancel and evil reign.

[ February 09, 2003: Message edited by: Inderjit Sanghera ]

Naldoriathil · 02-09-2003, 10:33 AM

Dark Lords are supernatural beings that only exist to create havoc and destruction to whoever and wherever they go. The are pure evil through and through and do not care about anything apart from themselves and their possesions. e.g Sauron and The One Ring. [img]smilies/mad.gif[/img]

02-08-2003, 07:21 AM	#1
Tenduriel Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Erreseä (temporary stay: Belgium) Posts: 37	the doom of the ring?? do you think that those who are deceived by the Ring are guilty themselves, or are they just unlucky to become slaves of Saurons will? and what do you think: would there be a dark lord in the 4th age too? namárië __________________ navaer! 5r#`C6R (Goodbye) O mór henion i dhû - Ely siriar, êl síla - Ai! Aniron Undómiel - Tiro! Êl eria e môr. - I 'lîr en êl luitha 'uren. - Ai! Aniron

02-08-2003, 01:19 PM	#3
Evenstar1069 Pile O'Bones Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 15	I think there would be another dark lord. Like Eruwen said, there's always someone wanting to screw things up. It all depends on how powerful whoever wants to is. __________________ Here you will dwell, bound to your grief, under the fading trees

02-08-2003, 02:17 PM	#5
Inderjit Sanghera Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Wolverhampton, England Posts: 716	No-Sauron was the last non-Human single incarnation of evil. There would be no more Dark Lords. __________________ “If I’m more of an influence on your son as a rapper then you are as a father then you've got to look at yourself as a parent” ~>Ice Cube. "Life is so beautiful"->Don Vito Corleone

02-08-2003, 05:12 PM	#8
MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: San Francisco Posts: 573	I don't think it is their fault that the ring corrupts them, so I don't think there should be any guilt, but then, there might be. Like Boromir, I really think he felt guilty for trying to take the ring, even though the ring used his ignorance and ather negative qualities. That's what I think. __________________ Do Not Touch -Willie

02-08-2003, 07:03 PM	#10
Gorwingel Beholder of the Mists Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Somewhere in the Northwest... for now Posts: 1,419	They talk all about Melkor in the Silmarillion. If you have not read it, then you would know nothing about him. He came before Sauron, he was even more evil than Sauron, because he had more power. Melkor was his orginal name (when he was a Vala), but he is later known as Morgoth. Sauron was a servent of Melkor. After Melkor was defeated Sauron took over the task (having complete dominion over Middle Earth) that Melkor had always been striving for. __________________ Wanted - Wonderfully witty quote that consists of pure brilliance

02-08-2003, 02:06 PM	#4
InklingElf Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 402	Where there is a candle, there is light but there is also a shadow.

02-08-2003, 02:30 PM	#6
Jurion Haunting Spirit Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 85	Indeed, Inderjit is right. Sauron was the last true Dark Lord. There is still evil, no doubt about it. But after Sauron there only were humans. Sauron was the last non-human, true incarnation of evil.

02-08-2003, 03:25 PM	#7
Eruwen Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 892	What about Wizards? For instance, what if Gandalf suddenly decided to go bad? Couldn't he wreck havok on Middle Earth? He has the power.

02-08-2003, 05:58 PM	#9
Tate Aisling Pile O'Bones Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 11	waves Heya. Thought I'd drop in. Question though! Who the heck is Melkor? I haven't been able to read all the books yet, since my dad is so stingy! So, from what everyone is saying, I take it he taught Sauron? And, indeed, what about the wizards? If Sauroman can go bad, they all can right? So if one that is really powerful like Gandalf decides to turn to the "dark side", that would make him the next dark lord, right? ...One last question if I may. If Sauron wasn't human with really ugly armor, what was he?

02-08-2003, 10:39 PM	#11
InklingElf Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 402	Who is Melkor?: 'Melkor' is the true name of the first Dark Lord,Morgoth, and is used for him from his beginning until his theft of the Silmarils. I hope that helps, but it would be better if you read the Silmarillion.

02-09-2003, 03:44 AM	#12
Deathwail Haunting Spirit Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Door of Night Posts: 99	The Malice of Morgoth lives on in Middle Earth even though he has been cast out into the dark void so though Sauron is defeated there is nothing to say Morgoth cant work his black mojo on someone in the later Ages.Silmarillion is pretty clear about the fact that though Melkor cant himself walk middle earth he can still impose his will on it. __________________ He who arises in Might.

02-09-2003, 06:36 AM	#13
Inderjit Sanghera Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Wolverhampton, England Posts: 716	Also, if Melkor's's spirit was destroyed then Arda would be destroyed too, because so much of his power has passed into it. __________________ “If I’m more of an influence on your son as a rapper then you are as a father then you've got to look at yourself as a parent” ~>Ice Cube. "Life is so beautiful"->Don Vito Corleone

02-09-2003, 07:38 AM	#14
Tenduriel Animated Skeleton Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Erreseä (temporary stay: Belgium) Posts: 37	gee thanks y'all! that's some answers indeed. another question: what is the definition of a dark lord actually? is it some-one who is (taught) by the Most Evil One? then you could say that there wouldn't be a dark lord in the 4th Age. but if a dark lord is anyone with enough forces to resist the powers of the Istari (wizards like Gandalf) then the Istari themselves could. try to imagine what would happen if all the wizards would turn evil!! __________________ navaer! 5r#`C6R (Goodbye) O mór henion i dhû - Ely siriar, êl síla - Ai! Aniron Undómiel - Tiro! Êl eria e môr. - I 'lîr en êl luitha 'uren. - Ai! Aniron

02-09-2003, 08:24 AM	#15
Inderjit Sanghera Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Wolverhampton, England Posts: 716	There were only ever two 'dark lords'-Sauron and Melkor. I think that only soemone of great potency and power can be classified as a dark lord, who had a substancel and evil reign. [ February 09, 2003: Message edited by: Inderjit Sanghera ] __________________ “If I’m more of an influence on your son as a rapper then you are as a father then you've got to look at yourself as a parent” ~>Ice Cube. "Life is so beautiful"->Don Vito Corleone

02-09-2003, 10:33 AM	#16
Naldoriathil Haunting Spirit Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: London Posts: 71	Dark Lords are supernatural beings that only exist to create havoc and destruction to whoever and wherever they go. The are pure evil through and through and do not care about anything apart from themselves and their possesions. e.g Sauron and The One Ring. [img]smilies/mad.gif[/img] __________________ "He is Aragorn, Son of Arathorn, Heir to the Throne of Gondor!"