Gollum and Eagles: Deux ex machina? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

JennyHallu · 03-08-2006, 12:34 PM

My take on the Eagles were that they were to enhance our understanding of Frodo's state of mind. The task is over, and he's reached a point of physical and emotional exhaustion he's managed to stave off all this time. He sees the Eagles through a haze of unreality, he's confused as to what story he's in. We are almost given the impression that the Eagles are a hallucination, and are delighted and surprised when we find Frodo and Sam are still alive at the beginning of the next. They needed a miracle, and they got one.

Perhaps it's a Deus Ex Machina on purpose. As it has been previously defined, an Act of God. That doesn't necessarily imply any weakness on the part of the author, but a story in which God is very real.

As for Coincidence, I fear I must disagree with Jeffrey Archer there. If he is so unreliable most of the time, Essex, he is probably unreliable all of the time. Half of Shakespeare is reliant on coincidence...A Comedy of Errors (an entire genre!) is entirely dependent upon coincidence for plot and resolution.

Elu Ancalime · 03-08-2006, 03:42 PM

Celuien, I agree with you about SpM's nudge on Bombadil. Probably the best example.

Well, In a Middle-Earth sense of view(and especially one of the WIse) the Eagles might not be surprised. Elves in general seem to not be surprised by anything, and in the Third Age at least, they have seen it all, so they dont seem to get really excited. So, the Eagles taking Frodo and Sam may not be unlooked for Elrond and the boys back home. And although Gollum himself may not be DEM, his action might be considered literary-speaking.

When using a DEM, it is to end the conflict and save the Good from their impending loss to Evil. So really, redemption may be a theme, since the Good have suffered so long while they resisted Evil. So, Gollum didnt mean to destroy the Ring, but it is kind of a Trade-off for (between the hobbits and Gollum in this case) Frodo's compassion. Smeagol may not have been able to rid himself of the Ring and Gollum, but for Frodo in a way giving him a short experiance of good, Gollum also saved Frodo from turning into what Gollum did. In this way, Gollum's action (even though in the end he succumbed to evil) is saving Frodo from what he couldnt save himself from. This can be like a Christ view, but more equal. Gollum sacrifices himself (and he dosnt know or feel it, but) and that takes the Ring out of play, but only because Gollum put himself on the lowest level and betrayed Frodo. I think Frodo, when his finger was seperated, then was actually free from his 'fit', even though the Ring would not be destroyed for moments later. So Then maybe for a plit second, Frodo might have realized what Smeagol went through, and then again, pity, and the fact his was hurtin', stoped him from puttin an end to Gollum. So Gollum is like the man that has been enamoured in evil, and when the good man tries to fix him, that good man falls. But the first evil man takes all the evil and frees the good man, who endured evil in a Job-Like way, until the very end, but was saved.

Um, does that make any sense?

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MFLB

03-08-2006, 12:34 PM	#1
JennyHallu The Pearl, The Lily Maid Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In my luxury Barrow, snuggled up in a pile of satin pillows, eating fresh fruit. Posts: 1,628	My take on the Eagles were that they were to enhance our understanding of Frodo's state of mind. The task is over, and he's reached a point of physical and emotional exhaustion he's managed to stave off all this time. He sees the Eagles through a haze of unreality, he's confused as to what story he's in. We are almost given the impression that the Eagles are a hallucination, and are delighted and surprised when we find Frodo and Sam are still alive at the beginning of the next. They needed a miracle, and they got one. Perhaps it's a Deus Ex Machina on purpose. As it has been previously defined, an Act of God. That doesn't necessarily imply any weakness on the part of the author, but a story in which God is very real. As for Coincidence, I fear I must disagree with Jeffrey Archer there. If he is so unreliable most of the time, Essex, he is probably unreliable all of the time. Half of Shakespeare is reliant on coincidence...A Comedy of Errors (an entire genre!) is entirely dependent upon coincidence for plot and resolution. __________________ <=== Lookee, lookee, lots of IM handles!

03-08-2006, 03:42 PM	#2
Elu Ancalime Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Anador Posts: 476	Celuien, I agree with you about SpM's nudge on Bombadil. Probably the best example. Well, In a Middle-Earth sense of view(and especially one of the WIse) the Eagles might not be surprised. Elves in general seem to not be surprised by anything, and in the Third Age at least, they have seen it all, so they dont seem to get really excited. So, the Eagles taking Frodo and Sam may not be unlooked for Elrond and the boys back home. And although Gollum himself may not be DEM, his action might be considered literary-speaking. When using a DEM, it is to end the conflict and save the Good from their impending loss to Evil. So really, redemption may be a theme, since the Good have suffered so long while they resisted Evil. So, Gollum didnt mean to destroy the Ring, but it is kind of a Trade-off for (between the hobbits and Gollum in this case) Frodo's compassion. Smeagol may not have been able to rid himself of the Ring and Gollum, but for Frodo in a way giving him a short experiance of good, Gollum also saved Frodo from turning into what Gollum did. In this way, Gollum's action (even though in the end he succumbed to evil) is saving Frodo from what he couldnt save himself from. This can be like a Christ view, but more equal. Gollum sacrifices himself (and he dosnt know or feel it, but) and that takes the Ring out of play, but only because Gollum put himself on the lowest level and betrayed Frodo. I think Frodo, when his finger was seperated, then was actually free from his 'fit', even though the Ring would not be destroyed for moments later. So Then maybe for a plit second, Frodo might have realized what Smeagol went through, and then again, pity, and the fact his was hurtin', stoped him from puttin an end to Gollum. So Gollum is like the man that has been enamoured in evil, and when the good man tries to fix him, that good man falls. But the first evil man takes all the evil and frees the good man, who endured evil in a Job-Like way, until the very end, but was saved. Um, does that make any sense? ................................ ________ MFLB Last edited by Elu Ancalime; 03-03-2011 at 11:24 PM.