WWJ VI: Return to Midsomer Mawlin - Kill me again

[Kitanna]

Well, I see Nogrod has made quite a name for himself since I last checked. His "lynch the silent villagers" plan seems more malicious than wolfish to me.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Why this way?
1) These silent one's are like submarines: they become all the more nauseating and dangerous as the game goes on, and the number of players reduces.
2) The first day lynching is quite random anyhow, with this one, we could have at least something to stand with (not picking randomly the one who is two names down from oneself in the original list of players - I've seen that reasoning in a game!), and in the worst scenario, eg. there really being people who actually don't play, having them removed in the first day, not dragging them all the way to the more critical situations.
3) It would make the wolves posting during the first day: something that could turn out to be useful later on.
4) These silent ones are not good gaming company anyhow. And any specific RL hindrances should be declared in the admin. thread.

His first three points can be seen as reasonable, but his fourth point is more of an attack on anyone who can't get on often. Despite his overeagerness to get the silent ones I'd hesitate voting for him (at this point at least). I feel this move on his part is too wreckless for a wolf. But still Nogrod has raised a few warning flags, yet, for me it is too early to make a desicion that can comdemn him.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Just thought I'd check in. I'm still around; watching. I'm uncertain of my thoughts toward Nogrod. The inexplicably random part of me is calling for a closer look at him. Nobody addressed my maths question, and that makes me sad, since I don't know if I'm right or wrong about the whole probability thing.

The nice calm (read: exhausted) part of me says "Let's let it all wait until tomorrow. We'll think about Nogrod then." The awake part (read: I had caffiene recently) says "It already is tomorrow. It turned tomorrow while you were outlining your term paper in the studio as your screen-filler dried and you were trying to come up with next week's lesson plan. Just lynch him, see if he's a wolf trying to manipulate us, and if he's innocent, feel a bit bad and then take his advice as what it then would obviously be: that of an outspoken innocent. And if he IS innocent, you can take close looks at anybody that voted for him. Evidence is evidence no matter the circumstances under which it is gained."

As you can see, when I'm tired, the voices in my head argue as to what I ought to be thinking about villagers that everybody else thinks are suspicious. I'm rather of the opinion that I should ignore the caffiene, since it's also saying that I should cartwheel down my hall. I haven't seen anything of Nogrod to make me nervous. All of Nogrod's points seemed and still seem pretty valid. What's got me wondering at all is that Zali and Morm seem so worried. Maybe they've seen something I haven't.

Which is why, after this meandering post, I've decided to wait until after class tomorrow (I'll be back around 12:30 PM EST) to make any decisions. In theory, by that point I'll be a bit rested. Try not to kill anyone without me. But talk a lot. Especially the wolves. It would be very nice of you to come out and reveal yourselves. Please? It would be fun. You like fun. Right?

[Diamond18]

Well, I for one still have no idea who to vote for. Everyone seems equal parts suspicious and innocent. I would have to read over everything a few more times to find any clues, but my brain is slowly dying. Posts swim before my eyes as they glaze over. My eyes, not the posts. See? Even my participles are dangling in a weary fasion. Maybe I'll have some of that caffiene Fea is operating on....

I could do the totally random thing and throw out a vote for just anyone, or jump on the Nogrod bandwagon, but I am paralyzed with the fear that whatever I do will cast suspicion. Curses and bother. I think I will check back in the morning (or, as it is in the hallowed hereafter where the ghost of our beloved Mith dwells and dictactes the fates of us all, the evening) to see what other people with more initiative have decided.

[Nogrod]

I thought of opening some discussion. Well, I surely seem to have succeeded. Thanks people for your confidence!

But just to mend some quite clear misunderstandings.

Mormegil: Far too eager to lynch... It's only been 3 to 4 hours and he's worrying this...
Azaelia: ...call for lynch... came just a bit too early.

I think I said it quite clearly: we should consider this, and then make decisions: not on the third hour, but at the time anyone has to make her/his decision.

And Azaelia. See what I write here (in a paragraph you yourself quoted)

= Nogrod
There are so far 5 people (Diamond, Sleepy, Gil, Azaelia and Oddwen) who have not yet posted anything, due to the timezones, most probably. But if some people still stand on this kind of list as the day draws to a close?

So I was not forgetting that people have different timezones: on the contrary, I openly discussed the matter, as you see.

= Oddwen
Who says all the vocal people are helpful? And how do you know the wolves think the quiet ones are a "waste"? So early in the game? And again?

Vocal wolf is helpful for us - at least more helpful than a silent one. And a vocal villager is of help (if s/he's having some substance - I admit that "vocalness" was a wrong choice of a word here: "substantial" is better), as a silent one is not.

And I can't see any reason for a wolf to kill a silent villager during the night. They cause no threat to them, and can be left freefloating for the villagers to be worried about.

And for my "bloodlust" again. Don't be hypocritical about us not needing to vote today. You can think about your reasons for voting at the first minute. I think one should!

And if you search for a quick to hunger blood, take a look at Morm. f.ex.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Nogrod
Why this way?
1) These silent one's are like submarines: they become all the more nauseating and dangerous as the game goes on, and the number of players reduces.
2) The first day lynching is quite random anyhow, with this one, we could have at least something to stand with (not picking randomly the one who is two names down from oneself in the original list of players - I've seen that reasoning in a game!), and in the worst scenario, eg. there really being people who actually don't play, having them removed in the first day, not dragging them all the way to the more critical situations.
3) It would make the wolves posting during the first day: something that could turn out to be useful later on.
4) These silent ones are not good gaming company anyhow. And any specific RL hindrances should be declared in the admin. thread.

Originally Posted by Kitanna

His first three points can be seen as reasonable, but his fourth point is more of an attack on anyone who can't get on often.

Well, that was not intended like that. I have been in two games, and at both ones, there have been people who write max. once a day, and say only "Oh how sad X died... boohoohoo..." And that's it. All of it! I don't think anyone likes to play with that kind of players - then see reason 1). We seem to be having something like an example on Gil (again) today. If there are no other posts by him today, then you see what I mean with "silent" or "nonsubstantial"...

I really enjoy playing with someone, who only posts once a day, if there really is substance in that post (well, at least twice should of course be better).

[Oddwen]

Originally Posted by Noggin

there have been people who write max. once a day, and say only "Oh how sad X died... boohoohoo..." And that's it.

True...those people aren't helpful...


And dang, that's all I can think of to say.

[Sleepy Ranger]

The names Ranger, Sleepy Ranger... I'll have a mountain dew, shaken not stirred.

As it is the first day and seeing how someone has to die, don't worry you only live twice, and seeing how I doubt I'll be able to post much more today I've decided to shoot at random. Not that it really matters since I have a license to kill.

++Feanor of the Peredhil

Nothing personal, dear, just about the whole WWJ I thing you see... oh wait... I guess it is personal.

[Firefoot]

Points of interest about Morm (not enough time/slightly too lazy to do a complete synopsis):

True but know that I am.

Yes they would.

Morm would almost seem to be arguing his own wolvishness here.

Post 57 - His extreme defensiveness to Nogrod's accusations certainly catch the eye.

Post 66 - He's the one to point out the "Fea's a wolf" statement. Now, this would seem audacious for a wolf, but given his earlier "Yes they would" statement...

Post 77 - Changes his vote to Fea. See above.

Posts 139-40 - He goes back to his more typical, reasonable tone of posting. The switch more than anything catches the eye.

Fea:
I'm too uncertain of Nogrod's guilt for Morm's insistence to sit right. Please forgive me if I'm voting against an innocent or, Mith Forbid, a seer.

This is interesting - it would be a clever way of putting it if Morm were a wolf. She votes for him, but she puts emphasis on the point that he could be innocent or even the seer. Sort of a "I'm not convinced of this so you shouldn't vote for Morm."

Also of note from Fea's post is how closely she intertwines Morm and Nogrod, as if the two are inextricably related. In fact, her post would seem to point towards Nogrod's guilt - this time in a "I sort of suspect him, but don't focus on him" sort of way.

Now perhaps you all see why I said take care in looking at Fea's posts? She is undoubtedly laughing at all this right now because you can't take any straight meaning out of them.

[Firefoot]

Concerning Nogrod's math: I think it is a bit faulty, but I'm too lazy to go and figure out what it ought to be.

It's time for me to vote, and I am wholly undecided. Some thoughts:

B88 did contradict himself on the point of morm, as morm pointed out. He seems fairly eager to get some control in this game, but it seems like I remember that being fairly normal for him. Possibly a vote here, although I am reluctant at this early stage to vote out one of the most substantially-posting players.

Diamond went pretty far into a defense of herself because of the accusation based on her name. I'm not sure it means anything, but I have noticed that newcomer wolves are sometimes overly defensive. I'm not sure this applies here since she sounded fairly even-minded through all of it.

True to form, Gil-Galad has said virtually nothing.

I don't think that Nogrod merits lynching yet.

Shoot, I'm out of time. I highly doubt I'll be on again, and wish I didn't have to make this vote in haste:

++Gil-Galad

About as random as anything, I guess, and with nothing else to go on on the first day, the least helpful players can go first...

[Oddwen]

++SLEEPY RANGER

Because I don't really want to vote for Nogrod - and he's jumping in with a vote...though so did Fea. And he voted for Fea. Hmm.

[JennyHallu]

Hi guys!

Sleepy, don't shake that! You'll get everybody sticky!

++Sleepy Ranger, for shaking his soda.

OK...now to business.

--Sleepy Ranger

Nogrod, still stirring the pot, I see? In a previous incarnation I seem to remember you got much the same response to your first day's Lynch the Quiet Ones call...a general "Huh? Now? WHY?" from across the village. It makes you look guiltier than Lady MacBeth, scrubbing her hands.

But, as I have seen you do this before, and know the outcome of that particular village, I'm inclined to believe--for now--that you aren't a wolf. I'll be keeping an eye on you, definitely.


Gil-Galad...I really wish you would say something more substantial. I haven't decided if I'm going to vote for you today, but I'm certainly inclined to. I'll need a good reason why not.


As for the rest of you...honestly, how much can one be expected to tell in one day? None of you really look suspicious, but it's rather soon to tell, don't you think? I'll be keeping my eyes open, but I'm at work and my focus won't be complete.

++Gil-Galad
unless something happens to make me change my mind.

[Boromir88]

A bit of a contradiction. You compliment my deduction and later say I've posted nothing of substance. My friend verbosity does not equate to substance. Now my dear Boro do you care to explain.~mormegil

Ok, an honest mistake, I had forgotten about what you pointed out to Nogrod because your first couple posts were pretty much mumbo bull. But, I admit it was a contradiction, see I admit when I'm wrong, I like people who do.

So he's the voting so far (though of course there are retractables):

Nogrod: 2 (mormegil, Azaelia)
Feanor: 1 (sleepy)
Gil-galad: 1 (Firefoot)

His first three points can be seen as reasonable, but his fourth point is more of an attack on anyone who can't get on often. Despite his overeagerness to get the silent ones I'd hesitate voting for him (at this point at least). I feel this move on his part is too wreckless for a wolf. But still Nogrod has raised a few warning flags, yet, for me it is too early to make a desicion that can comdemn him.~Kitanna

That makes you look more innocent then guilty, so for today I won't be crying for you lynching.

Which means I'll probably be voting for one of these remaining people:

Kuruharan
mormegil
Feanor
Sleepy
Oddwen
Nogrod
Gil-galad

Kuruharan and mormegil I'm willing not to go after today. It very well could be that one of them is a wolf, but I'll let them go today, for their typical logical input.

Feanor is an interesting one, she's going to play the same whether she's a wolf or an innocent, which makes her dangerous (if she's a wolf). I made a mistake saying morm hasn't posted anything of worth, but it's no mistake saying Feanor hasn't posted anything accept talking about the voices she hears in her head.

Sleepy, not much to go on with him, and I have no particular reason that stands out why I should vote for him. Oddwen same way, has contributed and nothing that sticks out as a "Here's your wolf sign."

Nogrod, I still have the same feeling. As mormegil pointed out we were about 4 hrs into the day and he's already talking about people who haven't posted yet. He says he was just trying to get discussion, which I think is reasonable, but is it innocent trying to be helpful, or is he being the clever wolf poller?...trying to see where the village stands and make his plan with his buds?

Gil-galad, will stay the same from beginning to end. The wolves most likely will keep him around because he'll be an easy target if one of them ever get in trouble. Which means if we want him gone we have to lynch him, but even if he is the same Gil, as long as he stays around and casts his vote and helps in that way then I don't see a reason to lynch him. The thing with Gil that always gets me worried is he's like Fea, only worse. He'll stay the same whether wolf or innocent and you can never put a finger on him.

So my vote will probably be either for Nogrod, Feanor, or Gil-galad...unless there's drastic changes.

[JennyHallu]

Why do I always get forgotten when people make lists?

[Boromir88]

Crossposted with Jenny and Oddwen make that:

Nogrod: 2 (mormegil, Azaelia)
Gil-galad: 2 (Firefoot, Jenny)
Sleepy: 1 (Oddwen)
Feanor: 1 (Sleepy)

[Boromir88]

Why do I always get forgotten when people make lists?~Jenny

Those in my list are the ones that I wasn't sure yet on what to decide. You'll notice Azaelia, Firefoot, Diamond, and Kitanna are also missing because I feel like they're are innocent as far as right now and there's no reason to vote for them. Unless you there's a reason you want me to put you on the list of possible votees? I mean I can do that...if you want to.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Nogrod, I still have the same feeling. As mormegil pointed out we were about 4 hrs into the day and he's already talking about people who haven't posted yet. He says he was just trying to get discussion, which I think is reasonable, but is it innocent trying to be helpful, or is he being the clever wolf poller?...trying to see where the village stands and make his plan with his buds?

It seems very hard to communicate to one another. Or then some people are just pushing this total misunderstanding forwards in purpose. Or they don't read other peoples' mails. I'm not sure, which one is the nastiest option.

I have not wanted to lynch anyone by their not posting at 4 hours to the game! C'mon people! I have all the time said, that we must see it when the evening draws closer. I myself will probably be voting here among the last ones - as not to vote for someone too early, with no reasons behind the vote!

PS. Firefoot (and whoever it was that pointed it out earlier) is right about the maths in my earlier post, it doesn't go that way. My fault. 50% would make the ratio of villagers and wolves to 50-50. Stupid of me.

[Boromir88]

A brief description of my post is this: who suspects whom, who seems to be defending whom, who's voted for whom, and interesting points of information. Following will be a brief summary of my thoughts on the player.~Fea

You know I can't wait, what does the great Go Go inspector Peredhil have to say about us (me in particular).

I have not wanted to lynch anyone by their not posting at 4 hours to the game! C'mon people! I have all the time said, that we must see it when the evening draws closer. I myself will probably be voting here among the last ones - as not to vote for someone too early, with no reasons behind the vote!~Nogrod

A bit defensive? Now you are twisting around what I'm saying. I never said you wanted to lynch anyone. I said you were rather hasty saying we should go after the quiet ones and commented who they were, and it was a very short time into the Day. Your reason given seems logical, but I don't question the logic I question the intent. Were you trying to start up discussion to help and view people, or were you going around polling what the general consensus was of the village?

Now I must bid you all an adieu, I shall certainly be back, I wouldn't miss what the all wise Fea has to say.

[Nogrod]

I'll be off to a school-meeting and hope to be back before the end of the day. If the end is at 7.45 GMT, then I will surely make it.

But if I'm wrong about it, then I will have to do something now.

And just as to give some new ideas to the table, I'll go for

++ Mormegil

And will surely retract it, if there is some better points made while I'm away (and especially if Gil doesn't turn out before the end).

But why?

1) His overhasty, ill-willed vote for me with no grounds whatsoever (disguised as a justified reaction, which it surely was not). Speaks of the evil, not of a constructive fellow-villager.

2) Accusing others of being blood-thirsty and acting as much worse himself (not only suggesting something to be considered, but accusing and also voting, by saying, not probably retracting).

3) Playing to the hands of the wolves: lynch vocal players trying to do something by the villagers during the day, kill the smart ones during the night.

4) His arrogant playingstyle that sets double standards. See his post #30. First he requires explanations from others, then he himself explains his viewpoints this argumentative and explanatory way:

Originally Posted by Firefoot
While I can see where many of you are coming from with your points about Nogrod, I'm not sure that it merits lynching him.

Oh yes it does!

and:

Originally Posted by Firefoot
I'm not sure a wolf would be that forward.

Yes they would.

5) Pure nausea. I wouldn't be that frustrated, if I would be voted out by some whimsical first day reasons like "he writes the word ''wolf' with a 'u' every fifth time" etc. That would be sad, but not frustrating. Trying purposefully to lynch someone who tries to help, is just nasty (and possibly stupid too).

See you later, before the vote ends.

PS. And thanks Feanor for the analysis to come!

PS2. Boro:

or is he being the clever wolf poller?...trying to see where the village stands and make his plan with his buds?

I think it's the task of both villagers and wolfs alike to poll the others to get a picture of the situation: even more urgent with the villagers to know, who to trust. So I can't see trying to arouse discussion as an argument to someone's wolfishness...

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Feanor

"Fea's a wolf."

I know this isn't in context but fellow villagers don't be afraid to take this at face value. She's a magnificent bluffer if a wolf.