Survivor: The Second Age

[lord of dor-lomin]

+ +Fangorn
An ent as a Survivor champ? No way. They just aren't active enough in events. They don't endlessly oppose evil. They don't send representatives to councils. They just hang out in the woods. Most of them turn into trees, and even the ents that stay "entish" lead the same sort of active life and are as interesting and charming as a pile of firewood.

I mean, honestly, Treebeard said he spent large quantities of time simply "breathing"! Can we really reward someone who displays this level of absolute apathy and laziness in life?

As far as I can tell, Treebeard's primary accomplishment during the 2nd Age was staying alive, and that was probably a struggle. I'm sure there were times where he took so long to raise his bowl of food to his mouth that he had almost shrivelled up by the time it arrived.

[Formendacil]

Okay, I never intended to leave this this late! I just… forgot. I don’t sleep in until 3:30!

Anyway, to analyze the votes:

Originally Posted by Diamond

I may retract this later, depending on whichever way my mood is violently swinging, but I'd like to start off today with a vote for:

+ + Fangorn

A: Because I want revenge for the ousting of Fimbrethil, and all the "ooh poor lovelorn Treebeard, left by a coldhearted woman" arguments that did said ousting.

B: Because he never really did anything interesting, besides destroying Isengard. Which was, okay, pretty cool, but it was one thing done in a vastly long lifetime. Most of the time he just stood around harooming and writing imitations of Elven poetry.

COUNTED for reason B: direct reference to Fangorn’s long life, lack of prominent happenings, use of poetry, and “harooming”.

Originally Posted by Lhunardawen

++CELEBRIANp

for being such a neglectful wife and mother! She's really just like that Fimbrethil, actually, only that she had these Orc-inflicted wounds for an excuse. Valid perhaps, but that's not the point!

Besides, Elrond needs someone to console him.

COUNTED- for direct reference to her ork wounds and subsequent abandonment of Middle-Earth.

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

Which leads me to direct my gaze on Celeborn once more.

Now, the hen-pecked husband thing does elicit some sympathy from me for him. But, really, he was supposed to be the wisest Elf in Middle-earth during the Third Age. If that was the case, then surely he could have stood up for himself a bit better.

And what did he actually achieve?

In the Second and Third Ages, he ruled over Lothlorien with Galadriel. He is said to be Lord of that realm. Yet it is clear who wore the trousers in that relationship. It was primarily Galadriel's power, and the power of her Ring, which maintained Lorien's defences. And it was she who, in reality, ruled there.

He is said to have been the wisest of all Elves. Yet, even a cursory glance at the Lothlorien chapters of LotR will reveal that Galadriel was by far the wiser of the two.

He is said to have been the greatest giver of gifts. Yet it was Galadriel who bestowed the most useful gifts on the Fellowship.

He commanded the army that conquered Dol Guldur. Yet it was Galadriel who destroyed its walls, thus rendering its defences ineffective.

Let's face it, Celeborn would have been nothing without Galadriel. And all that he did achieve relied heavily on her. As they are now in different tribes, this is becoming painfully and embarassingly apparent on the show. For trying to gain fame, notoriety and power through his wife's endeavours and not through his own efforts, I vote:

+ + CELEBORN

COUNTED- for a complete, if biased, recounting of Celeborn’s biography and relationship to Galadriel.

Originally Posted by Tuor of Gondolin

+ + Galadriel
Let's face it, even for Middle-earth elves she's downright scary and daunting. And she probably goes on endlessly about the good old days in Aman, how she was considered the cat's meow (not Beruthiel's lot) by the valar, how she wouldn't let Feanor have any strands of her hair, yadda, yadda, yadda. And if she goes it could unleash the brilliant leader (?????) inside Celeborn.

COUNTED- albeit reluctantly. “For Middle-Earth Elves she’s downright scary” doesn’t seem backed by Tolkien- although it’s possible to build a case. “Going on endless about Aman and the Cat’s Meow” seems completely count to the portrait of Galadriel painted by Tolkien, but she does long for it in “Farewell to Lórien”. Queen Berúthiel is completely inadmissible- it does not reference Galadriel at all. Galadriel never goes on about Fëanor and her hair- that we are shown- nor is there a case for her leaving making a difference with Celeborn.

Again, counted reluctantly, on the tenuous basis of the first two lines.

Originally Posted by Anguirel

++AMANDIL has had his time, and lasted quite as long as he would wish-let him depart with honour and give his grandson, the estimable younger son Anarion of Gondor, opportunity to flourish as a King.

Ermm…

Anguirel, your vote is NOT COUNTED,

For reason that “He has had his time” is nonsensical in a game that takes characters from across the generations, and that anything to do with Anárion has naught to do with Amandail.

Originally Posted by Firefoot

I think it's finally time for Celeborn to go. He's not a particularly interesting character and lives perpetually in the shadow of Galadriel. I can't remember anything that he did by himself of his own volition without her. He seems rather detached from most proceedings. It makes one wonder just what he did after Galadriel passed into the West. He doesn't seem terribly capable of much on his own.

++Celeborn

COUNTED- on the basis that Celeborn IS, in Tolkien’s works, pretty much always mentioned in conjunction with his wife Galadriel.

Originally Posted by Lalaith

Every time the cameras come to the Line of Luthien Tribe, Amandil's not even there. He's down in the bay, trying to build yet another funny little ship. He's just yearning to leave, you can see it in his eyes, poor man. Let him leave this Hither Shore, or at least try.

++AMANDIL

COUNTED- on the basis that Amandil WAS a sailor, and he DID try to leave “this Hither Shore”.

Originally Posted by Celuien

++AMANDIL

Amandil has no interest in being here. His task is to sail into the West and chat with the Valar (if they'll let him).

Let's add some more to this...

I have no problem with his trip. In fact, I think it was a noble effort. But ill-advised. I can't come up with any better solution if he wanted to get Numenor back in the Valar's good graces, but it wouldn't do any good for the real problem, which was Sauron working on Ar-Pharazon and Ar-Pharazon's pride. Probably should have just tried to help the remaining Faithful in Numenor and left for Middle-earth with Elendil and Co.

Direct references to Amandil’s attempted journey to Valinor. Perhaps not a reason for leaving a game, but used in that context.

COUNTED.

Originally Posted by Elu Ancalime

...And I return. To find Elrond gone (yay) and Suaron also (???). Amandil you say? For all we know Amandil could have made the difference between the nine ships of Elendil escaping or the Dunedain and the Hope for the West being swallowed into a toilet bowel.

++Celeborn

In defense of Amandil

EDIT: Right, Diamond18. So: Celeborn, although he may have seemed like Galadriel's shadow, really wanted her to get more attention. That way, he could just sit back and eat lembas while she did all the hard work (cooking, cleaning, and saving Lorien and the War)

Lots of Tolkien referenced here… but nothing to do with Celeborn, except some speculations that don’t seem to have a grounding in anything Tolkien wrote. NOT COUNTED.

Originally Posted by Anguirel

Amandil's a sailor, which casts grave doubts on his masculinity.

His family are all useless, except Anarion.

He doesn't have any decent swords.

His title is stupid. Andunie? Sounds like a laxative.

And Amandil sounds like Amanda. Girly. Ha. Nyah.

Imagine Amandil talking to his great-great-great-children:

"So, Elendil cut down Sauron, Isildur nicked the ring, and you..."

"I got drowned." Loser!

He's obviously suicidal. He had no hope of getting to Valinor. He can't want to be on this show. Let's give him what he wants...

Several biased, somewhat silly, but still Tolkien-grounded arguments. Anguirel’s vote is now COUNTED (see up).

Originally Posted by lord of dor lomin

+ +Fangorn
An ent as a Survivor champ? No way. They just aren't active enough in events. They don't endlessly oppose evil. They don't send representatives to councils. They just hang out in the woods. Most of them turn into trees, and even the ents that stay "entish" lead the same sort of active life and are as interesting and charming as a pile of firewood.

I mean, honestly, Treebeard said he spent large quantities of time simply "breathing"! Can we really reward someone who displays this level of absolute apathy and laziness in life?

As far as I can tell, Treebeard's primary accomplishment during the 2nd Age was staying alive, and that was probably a struggle. I'm sure there were times where he took so long to raise his bowl of food to his mouth that he had almost shrivelled up by the time it arrived.

Several references to general Entish traits, and a direct reference to Treebeards enjoyment of “just breathing”.

COUNTED.

There we are. The Day is done. Any votes between this and the offical count post will be accounted with tomorrow’s total.