Downfall of Númenor -> Culpable are the Valar?

[Eonwe]

So that leads back to their creator.

Not necessarily. In the Silmarillion, Tolkien tells us that, just as the Kinslaying corrupted the elves in their very cores, so did Men listening to the lies of Melkor.

Could this is his interpretation of the 'sin nature' in Christian theology? If so, then I think that would put the blame once more back on the Numenorians themselves. After all, nobody is forceing anyone to do anything. Free will and all...

[Celuien]

Interesting topic...

I don't see the Valar as culpable for Númenor's downfall.

Being near the Blessed Realm wasn't the reason for the change in the Númenoreans. It was Morgoth's schemes at work again. Inevitable perhaps, but not because of the Valar or the temptation of being close to Valinor, but rather because, as Eonwe said, Men listened to Morgoth. The source of the problem was the Númenorean fear of death. And that fear was implanted by Morgoth.

It is said by the Eldar that Men came into the world in the time of the Shadow of Morgoth, and they fell swiftly under his dominion; for he sent his emissaries among them, and they listened to his evil and cunning words, and they worshipped the Darkness and yet feared it.

Then the Men of Middle-earth were comforted, and here and there upon the western shores the houseless woods drew back, and Men shook off the yoke of the offspring of Morgoth and unlearned their terror of the dark.

Not written about the Númenoreans, but I think it applies to Men in general.

For though the Valar had rewarded the Dunedain with long life, they could not take from them the weariness of the world that comes at last, and they died, even their kings of the seed of Earendil; and the span of their lives was brief in the eyes of the Eldar. Thus it was that a shadow fell on them: in which maybe the will of Morgoth was at work that still moved in the world.

So the beginnings of the fall were in the reappearance of this fear. Something that would, I think, ultimately have resurfaced whether the Númenoreans were in Middle-earth or in sight of Elvenhome. They would still have been in contact with the Elves in Middle-earth and still reminded of their mortality. Maybe their fall would have been even faster there (if not so dramatic), being more removed from the influence of the Valar and closer to Sauron. After all, Sauron did trap Númenoreans with Rings. And I think his arrival in Númenor was the the final blow to their civilization. He was the one who brought Pharazon back to the "worship of the Dark."

Granted, none of Sauron's plots would have worked without Pharazon's cooperation. So the pride and similar failings of the Númenoreans play into this as well, but that can't be blamed on the Valar either.

Actually, the gift of Númenor seems very similar to the call to bring the Elves to the West. A well-intentioned effort to protect the Children of Iluvatar from Morgoth's machinations that ultimately failed. The reason for the failure both times seems to have been that a malevolant character worked on a proud member of the society. Morgoth:Feanor as Sauron/Morgoth's original plotting against humanity:Ar-Pharazon, anyone?

I think both ELU and Eönwe are right in this idea, i mean yes, Sauron corrupted numenoreans and yes
the temptation was always present, being that "near" of aman but basically, Numenoreans, as JRR says, forgot about the misterious gift and special fate that ERU has for the race of men, a gift that even the valar will envy in time wich is death and went for all the marbles and failed. We cant blame the Valar for the fate of the numenoreans, (even tough i think Eru over reacted in sinking the whole island!!! ), they had it coming for rising up and making war against the valar wich makes me wonder...how exactly did Ar-pharazon managed to get to the blessed realm?? would any other numenorean good or bad would have succeded in such a quest? this was not "Luck". if the Valar would have wanted to, they could have Ulmo or better yet Ossë because of his violent temper, sink all of the fleet in a blink of an eye, so why exactly did they let Ar-pharazón pass?? to set an example? to whom if they intended to destroy the island? i dont know
but i wonder what you think and sorry for deviating a little bit from the main thread line...

[Legolas]

I would not say that the Valar envy mortality. Does Eru envy mortality too? Why? Just because they're immortal? The Valar have been around longer than Arda itself, and will continue to be forever.

The reason elves struggled with their immortality because they were unable to keep the world (Middle-earth) around them from changing (the way they do). In fact, I'm not even sure we're given any hints about an elf in the Undying Lands complaining about immortality - I see no reason for one to, aside from scars from his/her Middle-earth past.

Oh but they do envy the gift Iluvatar gave to men Legolas, Tolkien himself says so at the end of the first chapter of the Quenta when he states (apologies if the translation is not correct, but my SILM is in spanish ) "One and the same is the gift of freedom from Ilúvatar to men: that they dont linger in the world, different from elves, who are attached to it as long as it exists, and cannot die other than by murder or by sorrow (and they are condemned to this two deaths apparently) and their spirits gather in the halls of mandos after they pass away, age doesnt weak them in any way, unless someone gets tired of ten thousand centuries and that way the love for all the things that are in this world grows deeper in their hearts and thus the burden of the eras grows heavier for them, but men really depart from this world and where do they go, the elves do not know. such is the gift from iluvatar to men, a gift that even the powers will envy with the time. Long ago it was revealed to the Valar that the men would play an important part in the second song among the children of iluvatar at the end of the days, but what will happen to the elves in the days after the world, Iluvatar has not revealed, and Melkor has not discovered yet.".... so the Ainur, who are often referred as the "powers" of Arda will envy the gift from iluvatar to men in time.

[Legolas]

Keen observation.

Envying 'at times' I could accept. It shouldn't be likened to the elves' constant day-to-day struggle with the ever-changing world.

The envy of the Valar would be of a different kind - they know 'the end' that men experience (what happens to their souls after death); it seems to me that an afterlife outside of the world in which some sort of 'fellowship' or contact with Eru is implied, and the Valar would undoubtedly miss this (which they experienced before the Music, before entering Ea) and wish to get away from their position as supervisors of the children.