LotR2-TTT-Seq06 - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Farael · 03-29-2006, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alatar

Though there is mention that Gollum relates to Frodo in a dog-like fashion (there are examples of Gollum exhibiting canine behavior), Frodo, as mentioned, does not treat Gollum like a dog. PJ's Frodo is more one-dimensional.

I'm saying this from memory, so I could be wrong... but I believe in the book it's not Frodo who treats Gollum as a dog... it's Gollum himself who behaves as one to "please" his new Master. I don't think that at any point in time we get an indication of Frodo treating Gollum as anything but another human (or should I say hobbit?). Correct me if I'm wrong though.

Elladan and Elrohir · 04-03-2006, 04:27 PM

Well, Frodo does order, "Down!" at one point in the book, and deals with Gollum like a dog a couple times, though for the most part he treats him like another human being. I don't mind this aspect of their relationship in the film at all, though.

It's very interesting to observe the Frodo-Sam-Gollum relationship dynamic in TTT, and then to see how it turns on its head in ROTK. In TTT, Frodo is presented as being wiser, more merciful, and more mature than Sam, as he spares Gollum's life and makes him lead them to Mordor while Sam becomes petty and jealous of Gollum. In ROTK, Frodo is presented as being blinded to Gollum's true nature, and eventually abandons Sam, while Sam is the hero who sees Gollum for who he really is, and eventually rescues Frodo. Obviously, this is the way it is in the films, not the books.

So what changes? How come Frodo is right in TTT and Sam is right in ROTK? I think it really comes about because of the change in Gollum's character. In TTT, we see a Gollum who is very conflicted, and feels the call of the Ring, but ultimately wants to "be good," at least until the end. In ROTK, we see a Gollum who argues with himself again towards the beginning, but other than that is just evil.

But I don't think Frodo and Sam's positions really change that much. Although, Frodo seems to be blind in ROTK, and I don't ever get that impression in TTT. And of course, Sam in ROTK seems to have rid himself of the sibling rivalry mentality he had in TTT. But their basic positions -- Frodo, Gollum good; Sam, Gollum bad -- don't change a bit.

So there's my dissertation, and as usual, it delves heavily into future sequences. Oh well, at least I'm not giving it in an Aragorn thread.

Lathriel · 04-03-2006, 04:49 PM

Well in TTT Frodo sees Gollum as he is, a creature who is dealing with a continuous inner conflict. He also sees that Gollum has a chance to turn back to good. However, the problem is that he never sees the change that occurs within Gollum which takes place right at the end TTT in the final scene.

Sam simply becomes more suspicious then he was before. He might have noticed the change but I am sure.

04-03-2006, 04:27 PM	#2
Elladan and Elrohir Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Halls of Mandos Posts: 332	Well, Frodo does order, "Down!" at one point in the book, and deals with Gollum like a dog a couple times, though for the most part he treats him like another human being. I don't mind this aspect of their relationship in the film at all, though. It's very interesting to observe the Frodo-Sam-Gollum relationship dynamic in TTT, and then to see how it turns on its head in ROTK. In TTT, Frodo is presented as being wiser, more merciful, and more mature than Sam, as he spares Gollum's life and makes him lead them to Mordor while Sam becomes petty and jealous of Gollum. In ROTK, Frodo is presented as being blinded to Gollum's true nature, and eventually abandons Sam, while Sam is the hero who sees Gollum for who he really is, and eventually rescues Frodo. Obviously, this is the way it is in the films, not the books. So what changes? How come Frodo is right in TTT and Sam is right in ROTK? I think it really comes about because of the change in Gollum's character. In TTT, we see a Gollum who is very conflicted, and feels the call of the Ring, but ultimately wants to "be good," at least until the end. In ROTK, we see a Gollum who argues with himself again towards the beginning, but other than that is just evil. But I don't think Frodo and Sam's positions really change that much. Although, Frodo seems to be blind in ROTK, and I don't ever get that impression in TTT. And of course, Sam in ROTK seems to have rid himself of the sibling rivalry mentality he had in TTT. But their basic positions -- Frodo, Gollum good; Sam, Gollum bad -- don't change a bit. So there's my dissertation, and as usual, it delves heavily into future sequences. Oh well, at least I'm not giving it in an Aragorn thread. __________________ "If you're referring to the incident with the dragon, I was barely involved. All I did was give your uncle a little nudge out of the door." THE HOBBIT - IT'S COMING

04-03-2006, 04:49 PM	#3
Lathriel Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Wandering through Middle-Earth (Sadly in Alberta and not ME) Posts: 612	Well in TTT Frodo sees Gollum as he is, a creature who is dealing with a continuous inner conflict. He also sees that Gollum has a chance to turn back to good. However, the problem is that he never sees the change that occurs within Gollum which takes place right at the end TTT in the final scene. Sam simply becomes more suspicious then he was before. He might have noticed the change but I am sure. __________________ Back again