Survivor: The Second Age

[Lalaith]

++ELROS

same reasons as before. And I'm fond of Celebrimbor. He's clever, he makes pretty things and he likes Galadriel. What's not to like?

[Tuor in Gondolin]

+ + Celebrimbor

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

You'd think the fate of eight previous elves (daddy + 7)
significantly caused by pride in their powers would
have had some influence on him.

[Lalaith]

But what was the problem with the rings Celebrimbor made, anyway? Without them, Middle Earth would have been a lot worse of...

[Tuor in Gondolin]

But what was the problem with the rings Celebrimbor made, anyway? Without them, Middle Earth would have been a lot worse of...

A good, debatable point. But his being taken in by
"appearances" of pre-deluge Sauron doesn't speak
highly for his discernment. I believe Galadriel
told (Atanatar?) to shove off.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Tuor in Gondolin

A good, debatable point. But his being taken in by
"appearances" of pre-deluge Sauron doesn't speak highly for his discernment. I believe Galadriel told (Atanatar?) to shove off.

No, 'fraid not...

'twas Galadriel and Celeborn- not Celebrimbor- who ruled Eregion when Sauron waltzed right in after being given the thumb's down in Lindon. Tolkien, ever the Galadriel-fancier, tries to cover it by making it sound like Galadriel and Celeborn were rather lacking in power, but that doesn't speak any better about them, now does it?

And don't try blaming it all on Celeborn... we've already decided everything he did goes back to Galadriel.

[Diamond18]

Originally Posted by Formendabras Took

Tolkien, ever the Galadriel-fancier, tries to cover it by making it sound like Galadriel and Celeborn were rather lacking in power, but that doesn't speak any better about them, now does it?

Er, you do realize that Tolkien was the godlike genius, author, and final authority of all things Middle-earth related and if he said they were lacking in power they were and there's no "trying" or "making it sound like" involved?

I dunno if I'm going to vote today. I feel like voting for Elros but I'm just too lazy to come up with some reasonable explanation for it... but since the day is double long maybe I'll come up with something in the next 24 hours.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Lalaith

But what was the problem with the rings Celebrimbor made, anyway? Without them, Middle Earth would have been a lot worse of...

It's not so much the rings themselves but rather who he took his ring-making tips off. Which shows exceptionally bad judgment on his part.

I think that it is safe to say that Middle-earth would have been a lot better off without the Rings of Power if that meant that there was also no One Ring ...

[JennyHallu]

And had Celebrimbor not made his rings, Sauron's might not have been so powerful. Pure speculation, but Sauron waited to make his Ring until Celebrimbor had already made the others, right? The other rings must also have been vital in Sauron's plans for world domination.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

And had Celebrimbor not made his rings, Sauron's might not have been so powerful. Pure speculation, but Sauron waited to make his Ring until Celebrimbor had already made the others, right? The other rings must also have been vital in Sauron's plans for world domination.

JH: You could have the basis of several interesting threads here.
(I'm too lazy to check if there are existing ones). Tolkien
himself is, I believe, ambivalent on the overall effects of the three rings on
Middle-earth and the elves. And would a "stand-alone" Sauron Ring
have been less powerful?

At any rate, the Celebrimbor vote stands, although he did resist
Sauron, but he seems to be ethically/politically ambivalent
(in some versions ousting Galadriel from power) and still
pursuing elf power in Middle-earth.

[JennyHallu]

TiG: Sauron's own poem describing his Ring refers to it as Master of the other Rings, not as an independent power...

And if that is so, then Celebrimbor's denseness actively aided Sauron. He didn't even try to resist Sauron until he saw him in total "I am going to rule the world thanks to these suckers" mode and couldn't make an excuse not to.