Survivor: The Second Age

[the phantom]

She was put in a bad spot, forced into a marriage against her will to a man who would usurp all the power.

So, that makes her worthy of winning?

But she herself was not able to be saved from the drowning of Numenor - how could she? the Queen could hardly just go missing, and their doings all had to be done in secret.

Yeah right. If Tar-Miriel would've been around the Faithful a bit and helped them or at least been in contact with them, there is no doubt that Elendil and his sons would have had a plan to rescue their Queen after Ar-Phar left. Isildur rescued the Tree, didn't he? Then how much more likely would he have been to rescue the heir of the line of Elros that the Tree represented?

It would have been easy for her to give in, but she remained loyal to the Faithful, and would have undoubtedly helped them out quite a bit (she was certainly in some sort of position to do so, even if she would have had to act in secret).

She "undoubtedly" helped the Faithful quite a bit? That's quite a leap of faith you are taking. The Queen disobeying her husband and aiding his enemies is a big deal, especially in this instance. There are tales about the actions of Amandil, Elendil, Isildur, and Anarion before leaving Numenor, tales that tell of their preperations and brave deeds. I don't recall the queen being mentioned.

If Tar-Miriel would've done something it would've been written. Why don't you find something she actually did and then vote for her (that is if you can find something she did worthy of making her Survivor champ). You can't vote for someone based on a guess that they did something brave simply because you want a female to win. That is quite obviously sexist.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

A provisional vote for
+ + Celebrian
She was actually rather adventurous, including
journeying over a rather run-down Redhorn Gate
to visit mom and dad, and she did survive orc poisoning
and ill treatment. Plus her experience with nassty
orcsees had a lot to do with her sons having
a thing for terminating orcs with extreme prejudice .
Oh yeah, and her seamstress daughter made a good
trophy wife.

[Celuien]

++CELEBRIMBOR

For being the only contestant remaining to have actually done something important. The Three Rings were important for the preservation of Rivendell and Lorien, and aiding Gandalf's efforts.

[The Saucepan Man]

Celebrimbor most certainly should not win, for the reasons that I have stated muerous times previously. He managed to get Middle-earth into a terrible mess, almost single-handedly, which others had to sort out, at great cost to themselves, later.

I rather prefer the idea of Celebrian as victor. It must have taken a lot of guts to resist simply succumbing to the torments of the Orcs that had captured her and relinquish her hroar then and there. I reckon that it was her love for her husband and children, and her wish to see them again, which kept her going, and that speaks loudly in her favour as far as I am concerned. Let's not underestimate the courage that is required to survive captivity in such terrible conditions. It is clear that she suffered terribly from the fact that even Elrond was unable, ultimately, fully to heal her spirit.

And she gave birth to some pretty remarkable chidlren. Arwen, who is likened to none less than Luthien, and whose inspiration of Aragorn contributed to the salvation of Middle-earth. And Elladan and Elrohir, whose qualities as hunters and warriors are undoubted, and who also contributed greatly to the cause at the Pelennor and before the Black Gate.

So, for her courage in the face of horrendous circumstances, and for her contribution, through her children, to the salvation of Middle-earth and ultimate defeat of Sauron in the Third Age:

+ + CELEBRIAN

[the phantom]

I can't find fault in your pro-Celebrian vote, Sauce, so you can rest easy on that.

I do, however, take issue with your anti-Celebrimbor stance (as usual).

He managed to get Middle-earth into a terrible mess, almost single-handedly

A ridiculous statement, if I may say so.

The mess you are speaking of is the Ring mess, obviously. Now answer me this- since the Ring thing would have happened even without him, how can you possibly justify saying that he caused it?

CELEBRIMBOR DID NOT CAUSE THE RING INCIDENT!!!

SAURON DID!!!

The only way the Ring wouldn't have happened is if Sauron hadn't thought of it. Celebrimbor was not necessary to Sauron's Ring plot. The ONLY things Celebrimbor added to the situation was the crafting of three powerful rings that were a great help to the good guys as well as the sensitivity to perceive Sauron's plot just in time to stop it from succeeding.

Without Celebrimbor, the whole Ring affair would've been a far bigger plus for Sauron.

(the above is not opinion- it is FACT!)