money in middle earth

[davem]

Originally Posted by Lalwendë

There's also another question to raise. If there was not a Mint in the Shire, how could the flow of cash be controlled? Too much cash in the economy would cause serious inflation, so would Bilbo's return with 'treasure' have raised eyebrows in more ways than one?

Maybe this is why Bilbo refused to take a full share of the treasure & only took two small chests....

[The Saucepan Man]

Here's another thread discussing the place of money in Middle-earth, which also includes a discussion on the likelihood of trade between different realms:

Money!

As for my own contribution to this thread, I shall take the liberty of quoting myself from that earlier thread:

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

Of course, it does not follow from the existence of trade that any form of currency existed in ME. Goods could be bartered. But there is some evidence for the existence of currency. The auction involving Bilbo's furniture has been mentioned, and auctions tend to involve goods being exchanged for currency, rather than bartered for other goods. Also, the Trolls that Bilbo and the Dwarves encountered had a purse, the purpose of purses generally (although not exclusively) being to carry coinage, and their hidden horde included pots of gold coins.

I doubt that a society as complex as that of Gondor could function without some form of currency. And it seems that the Shire probably had some form of currency too. I hardly imagine, however, that there was any form of exchange rate between currencies of different realms. Possibly, there was a universal currency, perhaps consisting of gold, silver and copper coins, although that raises the question of where they were minted. Could anyone with access to the relevant precious metals and the necessary technology have minted coins which would be acceptable elsewhere in ME? It seems more likely to me that realms which operated on the basis of currency would develop their own currency, signifying the coinage as their own by impressing upon it the likeness of their ruler. I would therefore speculate that some (although not necessarily all) realms did have some form of currency of their own. However, it is likely that trade between different realms mostly took place by barter.

[Formendacil]

Another thing to note, too, is that Gold was probably not the only metal used in the making of coins. We know, from the silver pennies that Merry received from Butterbur, that silver was also in general use. And, since I believe that Merry received ONLY 18 silver pennies in compensation for 5 ponies, there must have been another, lesser, denomination for smaller, more everyday purchases. Looking at history, it seems safe to assume that these would have been copper, or possibly bronze (I've never heard of bronze coins, but I assume that they COULD exist...).

[davem]

Just found this essay by Michael Martinez on Merchants in Middle-earth. He makes reference to something Tolkien wrote for the Appendices of LotR which had to be excised for reasons of space.

From the essay:

Just prior to The Lord of the Rings' publication J.R.R. Tolkien was forced to condense the extensive material he had prepared for the appendices. Among the excluded passages which were only published in The Peoples of Middle-earth was a brief but fascinating section detailing the names of money used in Gondor. The tharni, we are told, was a silver coin, the fourth part of a castar. The tharni may thus have been equivalent to the silver pennies of Eriador.

The Elven equivalents for tharni and castar were canath (from kanat-, 'four') and mirian (from mir, 'a jewel or precious thing'). "The Etymologies" provides a root-word, mbakh, meaning 'exchange', from which words for 'trade', 'tradesman', and 'commerce' were derived in Qenya (the precursor to Quenya). There were also words for 'pedlar' and 'ware' in Noldorin (Sindarin).

Unfortunately I'm still trying to find the exact part of Vol 12 that Martinez refers to. I'll keep looking - unless someone beats me to it.

[A_Brandybuck]

Beat you. ;-)

PoME, On Translation:
Similarly farthing has been used for the four divisions of the Shire, because the Hobbit word tharni was an old word for 'quarter' seldom used in ordinary language, where the word for 'quarter' was tharantin 'fourth part'. In Gondor tharni was used for a silver coin, the fourth part of the castar (in Noldorin the canath or fourth part of the mirian).

But I cannot find a reference to the suggested equivalence to the silver pennies of Eriador.

[davem]

Thanks - you did just beat me (its on P 45 of vol 12 if anyone is interested)

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by A_Brandybuck

But I cannot find a reference to the suggested equivalence to the silver pennies of Eriador.

The Lord of the Rings, The Fellowship of the Ring, Book I, Chapter XI "A Knife in the Dark":

Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien

Bill Ferny's price was twelve silver pennies; and that was indeed at least three times the pony's value in those parts. It proved to be a bony, underfed, and dispirited animal; but it did not look like dying just yet. Mr. Butterbur paid for it himself, and offered Merry another eighteen pence as some compensation for the lost animals. He was an honest man, and well-off as things were reckoned in Bree; but thirty silver pennies was a sore blow to him, and being cheated by Bill Ferny made it harder to bear.

I forgot, in my original reference to the silver pennies, that Butterbur also paid 12 for Bill, but I'm pleased to see that I was right about the number 18...

[A_Brandybuck]

Sorry, but I don't get it. What part exactly means, that The tharni may thus have been equivalent to the silver pennies of Eriador ?