Who or What is Tom Bombadil?

[yavanna II]

I've long ago decided for myself that Tom Bombadil is the very spirit of Arda--Arda in a physical form that can walk, talk, and be like a Kid of Eru in the sense that he's almost looking like them.

"Eldest, that's what I am ... Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn ... He knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless — before the Dark Lord came from Outside."

[narfforc]

Originally Posted by yavanna II

I've long ago decided for myself that Tom Bombadil is the very spirit of Arda--Arda in a physical form that can walk, talk, and be like a Kid of Eru in the sense that he's almost looking like them.

"Eldest, that's what I am ... Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn ... He knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless — before the Dark Lord came from Outside."

Yes I agree in a way, the more I think of the history of Bombadil, the more I am convinced that he is either the Guardian of the Secret Fire/Flame Imperishable or he is the physical embodiment it. Why else would he come First, when there was nothing else in Arda apart from the Flame that Eru had placed there.

[davem]

Originally Posted by yavanna II

I've long ago decided for myself that Tom Bombadil is the very spirit of Arda--Arda in a physical form that can walk, talk, and be like a Kid of Eru in the sense that he's almost looking like them.

"Eldest, that's what I am ... Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn ... He knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless — before the Dark Lord came from Outside."

Of course, this would imply that Arda is in some way conscious - specifically self-conscious. It is alive, has memory & the capacity for (rational???) thought.

I'm reminded of Legolas' words (The Ring goes South):

'That is true,' said Legolas. 'But the Elves of this land were of a race strange to us of the silvan folk, and the trees and the grass do not now remember them. Only I hear the stones lament them: deep they delved us, fair they wrought us, high they builded us; but they are gone. They are gone. They sought the Havens long ago.

Maybe Legolas is speaking literally. Which brings to mind a recent post of Aiwendil's on The Hobbit CbC thread.

[drigel]

and your quoting brings this one to mind, Davem:

Aragorn in FotR: 'There are many evil and unfriendly things in the world that have little love for those that go on two legs, and yet are not in league with Sauron, but have purposes of their own. Some have been in this world longer than he.'

dont forget cruel Caradhras

"...longer than Sauron" is significant, almost Bombadillian.

perhaps there are just as many good and friendly things in the world as well

[davem]

Originally Posted by drigel

dont forget cruel Caradhras

"...longer than Sauron" is significant, almost Bombadillian.

perhaps there are just as many good and friendly things in the world as well

Or that passage from TH:

For just at that moment the light came over the hill, and there was a mighty twitter in the branches. William never spoke for he stood turned to stone as he stooped; and Bert and Tom were stuck like rocks as they looked at him. And there they stand to this day, all alone, unless the buds perch on them; for trolls, as you probably know, must be underground before dawn, or they go back to the stuff of the mountains they are made of, and never move again. That is what had happened to Bert and Tom and William.

So it does seem that the 'stuff' of M-e can come alive if it is inhabited by spirit/fea. But if Bombadil is the 'spirit of Arda' then we are dealing with something very like the Gaia concept of James Lovelock. Yet what is Goldberry? Tom cannot be the spirit of the whole of Arda if Goldberry is also the spirit of part of it ('Daughter of the River'). Its possible that both Tom & Goldberry are the male & female aspects of the spirit of Arda. Tom may be the 'earth' element & Goldberry the 'water' element. Tom seems to have a strong relationship with, & control over, the earth & the things that grow/live in it - OMW, Badgers, the Barrow Wights, while Goldberry rules water, clouds, rain.

As has been noted before they do seem to be 'reflections' of Celeborn & Galadriel (who almost seem to be 'higher harmonics' of them).

[Thalion]

Tolkien has said in Letters that Bombadil represents "something that was otherwise left out..." of the Lord of the Rings. I am inclined to read that statement along with all descriptions and comments about Tom in the following light:

Tolkien was attempting to write a "mythology" in all of his works. Not just a mythology for England, but a mythology and a set of stories that would look older and more complete than any other that had previously existed. He was doing this in an attempt to give a background for many myths and legends that we have currently or have had throughout time that share many elements (such as the Volsung Saga sharing similar elements with Beowulf, Nibelungenlied, the Poetic Elder and Edda, Atlantis, ect, ect, ect...)...as can be seen from his ideas concerning the fact that he was the translator and that all of these tales had to have come from specific sources (Bilbo's Red Book of Westmarch, Aelfwine/Eriol traveling to Erressea, ect), Tolkien was very concerned with giving "legitimacy" to his stories in that they could be percieved as "ancient" tales or stories which eventually were interpreted over the years as those tales that we currently interprent as legends and mythologies spread across Europe...

...but combined with this, Tolkien also had a love of languages...specifically Gothic and Welsh (Sindarian) and Finnish (Quenya)...but he also believed in the concept of an Ur Language, or a language above all languages...philologists, for years, have been attempting to trace back languages and make edcuated gueses concerning the earliest languages and how we can see similarities in many languages spread throughout the entire globe (similar in fashion to how we see similarities in legends spread throughout the globe)...however, an Ur language is the idea of a language that not only predates all other languages but also is a language that is that of God himself...as such, the Ur language when spoken would represent commands or actions more so than descriptions...for examples...saying the real and original word for"chair" in the Ur language would not only necessarily communicate to all others the exact thought of what a chair is just by the expression of that word, but may also cause such an object to come into being...

WHERE AM I GOING WITH THIS?

1) Look at Tom's sing-song type language...his words become commands...Old Man Willow lets the hobbits go, and so does the Barrow-Wight...Tom's expressions are like commands in a similar fashion to the idea that the Ur language would not only convey thought but would also cause things to come into being (or in Tom's case, do his bidding)...HOWEVER, Tolkien, also in his religious beliefs, would consider it blasphemy to imbody God in such a being as Tom Bombadil (or any other character for that matter)...yet, he would probably agree that the Ur language could only be spoken by God himself (save many for Angels, for which there is some conjecture still abounding)...therefore, how can Bomdabil speak an Ur language and not be God?

2) Now look to the first part of my post, the mythologies section...in all of these intertwining stories there are always things that stand out as pure mysteries to translators or interpretors...they just have no clue what they are or how they got into the story...Tom can be considered this...an Enigma? YES, but much more...Tom is an enigma because no tale of history or legendarium can be complete...its humanly impossible to be infallible...there will always be gaps and holes that can't be filled or explained even by the best of explanations...Tom is this hole, this gap, this thing unexplained...he represents "things otherwise left out"...meaning that Tolkien's world without Tom is nearly perfect...but with Tom, there is a big gaping mystery that no one can officially solve...Tom exists to give a realistic tone to the idea that one set of stories can fully resolve all mysteries that have existed in legends for the history of the world...one human story can't explain this...Tom shows us that...Tom shows us that human are fallible (including Tolkien) and therefore no tale written by humans is complete and perfect...

[davem]

But if Tom represents or symbolises something that would otherwise be left out, what does that make him - what is he?. Goldberry simply says 'He is', & then goes on to qualify that statement (or is she actually 'qualifying' it - maybe she's actually making another, different, statement about him) by saying 'He is as you see him.' It seems that she is saying He is what he appears to be - he doesn't wear a 'mask'.

Yet from Tom's statements about himself it seems he is far more than he appears to be. Unless all Tom's statements about himself are attempts to communicate what should be apparent in his very 'appearance' but aren't.

Its obvious that Tolkien knew exactly who & what Tom was but refused to say. One wonders why.

He is like a window onto a great Mystery - the mystery of Being. Contemplating Tom is a bit like contemplating infinity.

[Sardy]

One thing that strikes me as a bit odd about Tom is that his "power" seems limited to The Old Wood. It would seem that is he were indeed "the spirit of Middle-earth" or some such, that his presence and affect would be a bit more wide-ranging...

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

Originally Posted by yavanna II

I've long ago decided for myself that Tom Bombadil is the very spirit of Arda--Arda in a physical form that can walk, talk, and be like a Kid of Eru in the sense that he's almost looking like them.

"Eldest, that's what I am ... Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn ... He knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless — before the Dark Lord came from Outside."

How is your answer different from the second option of the poll?

Just asking...