orcs and goblins- what's the difference???

[narfforc]

There is at least one mention of the word Orc in the Hobbit, I have read back through the post although Orcrist is mentioned, it's translation into Goblin-cleaver has not I believe, if Tolkien says that, it's good enough for me. I think maybe that some are confused with Tolkiens descriptions on size. Stature can vary in all races, think of the pygmy and the zulu, both are of the same race, Orcs were said to have differed from tribe to tribe, There is also the air of Small being (wimpy I believe someone used) Less, and Tall being Great, the only analogy I can think of at this moment is that Mike Tyson, Joe Frazier and Rocky Marciano were all smaller men in their weight division, but they blew away most of the taller men put in front of them, in the same way as Gimli carved his way through Big Tall Fearsome Uruk-hai. So to me Goblin means Orc, the small, the tall, the scrawny and the large ones who had gorged too many Man and Potatoe Pies. The Uruk-hai and The Half-orcs were bred from any one of the Orc race/tribes

[AragornII]

I just wanted to point out that their is a difference between orcs and goblins in the movies. Now I know that this might just be PJ's interpretation, but in FotR, Gandlf, during his conversation with Elrond after Frodo's rescue at the ford, says:

...he's crossing orcs with goblin men, he's breeding an army...

This is in reference to Saruman. It suggests that orcs and goblins are two different creatures, because if they were the same, I don't think crossing an orc with an orc would give you an Uruk-hai. However, this is just the movies, so PJ could have added this. I checked in the book, but couldn't find it. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Boromir88]

I just wanted to point out that their is a difference between orcs and goblins in the movies.~AragornII

And as you point out that was in the movies and invented by Jackson. There is no difference between Orcs and Goblins as Tolkien points out:

They had run a long way shouting--he could not remember how far or how long; and then suddenly they had crashed right into a group of Orcs: they were standing listening, and they did not appear to see Merry and Pippin until they were almost in their arms. Then they yelled and dozens of other goblins had sprung out of the trees. Merry and he had drawn their swords, but the Orcs did not wish to fight, and had tried only to lay hold of them, even when Merry had cut off several of their arms and hands. Good old Merry!~The Uruk-hai

There the words are used interchangeably in a couple sentences. And...

Orcs (the word is as far as I am concerned actually derived from Old English orc ’demon’, but only because of phonetic suitability) are nowhere clearly stated to be of any particular origin. But since they are servants of the Dark Power, and later of Sauron, neither of whom could, or would, produce living things, they must be .corruptions’. They are not based on direct expierence of mine; but owe, I suppose, a good deal to the goblin tradition (goblin is used as a translation in The Hobbit, where orc only occurs once, I think),.....The name has the form orch (pl. yrch) in Sindarian and uruk in the Black Speech~Letter 144

Also, I would disagree with the assertion that Goblins are typically smaller than Orcs. They're the same and just two words to mean the same creatures as we see in The Departure of Boromir:

There were four goblin-soldiers of greater stature.....

Bottomline, orcs=goblins, goblins=orcs...one's not smaller than the other, they're not "weaker," they're the same.

[Rhod the Red]

They are the same thing. In The Hobbit they're all called goblins, but in TLOTR those in Moria are called goblins. I prefer TLOTR distinction.

[Boromir88]

but in TLOTR those in Moria are called goblins.

No, those in Moria are referred to as both orcs and goblins. Plus, Grishnakh was an orc from Mordor and was referred to as a goblin twice:

The hobbits felt Grishnákh's fingers twitch. 'O ho!' hissed the goblin softly.~The Uruk-hai

Grishnákh's sword was lying close at hand, but it was too heavy and clumsy for him to use; so he crawled forward, and finding the body of the goblin he drew from its sheath a long sharp knife. With this he quickly cut their bonds.~ibid

[Morsul the Dark]

In theory they are the same species this is true however they are different races

a good example is the difference among the race of man

we've got Caucasian, Asian, Black, Hispanic

Its the same with orcs and goblins theyre overall the same however there are noticable differences

[Rhod the Red]

Yes, I agree they're the same species.