Relative Powers

[mark12_30]

Originally Posted by Mister Underhill

There is a certain tension between faith in an ultimate spiritual victory, and the pessimism of "The Long Defeat". I think it's a very relatable tension, and one that makes the spiritual elements of LotR all the more believable. .

Sam's white star above the Ephel Duath comes to mind.

Originally Posted by Mister Underhill

But within a spiritual context, one can argue (I daresay Tolkien might argue) that self-sacrifice always leads to (spiritual) victory, even if within the bounds of time and the material world it yields an apparent defeat. .

Well said.

Originally Posted by Mister Underhill

There is the grace of the act itself -- of serving others; then there are the (often unknowable) consequences of the act, however small, within the grand scheme of things. .

Also well said. ..."I go now to my fathers, in whose mighty company I shall not now be ashamed."

Originally Posted by Mister Underhill

Except that Frodo's journey didn't end with his journey West; in a way, it was only beginning.

Aye. The grey rain curtain rolling back to reveal white shores and a far green country, with the wind carrying sweet song and fragrance, is heartbreaking due to our temporary loss... not Frodo's.

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

Now here's a question: How did the lies of Morgoth get spread, with him holed up in Thangorodrim during that centuries long siege?

Lies echo in the mind of the listener long after the liar has departed.