Why Moria?

[goldfinger]

Another thing that could a have happened is that if they would have taken the Northern routes they could have ran into Giants. Like in The Hobbit.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Rhod the Red

There are no giants in Middle-Earth.

Actually, there were. Bilbo and company found themselves at the business end of a few rocks hurled by Stone Giants as they crossed the Misty Mountains, and Gandalf considered the possibility of borrowing one such rock to stop up the entrance to Goblin-Town. Or are you suggesting (as has been suggested before) that the Stone Giants were a product of Bilbo's fertile imagination? If so, that's pure speculation and, in any event, contradicts the text as presented.

Originally Posted by Rhod the Red

Al;so, how do you know that storms were 'more common' in the north of the mountains? Again, your'e insterting nonsense into the story.

It is entirely reasonable to suppose that storms would have been at least as prevalent and intense, if not more so, in the northern reaches of the Misty Mountains. Speculation maybe, but hardly nonsense.

Rhod, I would suggest that you tone down your aggressive style as it is not conducive to reasoned discussion. Better, perhaps, to direct your energies to getting your own facts straight rather than trying to discredit suggestions made by others.

[Selmo]

Given Tolkien's description of the geography and meteorology of the north-west of Middle Earth, it is entirely reasonable to assume that both the High Pass above Rivendell and the more southerly Redhorn Gate would be impassable in mid-winter when the Fellowship set out.

I live in England which Tolkien took as his pattern for north-west Middle Earth. I'm a few minuets drive from the southern end of a chain of hills called The Pennines. These hills are less than 3000 feet in elevation but before the developement of twentieth century machinery many routes through them would be closed for months in winter. Even now, some roads are regularly closed for days. During a particularly severe winter in the 1970s a village called Flash, just 15 miles from my home, was cut off by snow for over three weeks. It's people and their farm animals were supplied by helicopter while the road-clearing crews from three counties, assisted by the Army and the Royal Air Force, battled against the weather to clear just three miles of road. Flash is at the same latitude as the High Pass and the Misty Mountains are very much higher than the Pennines, so I have always taken for granted that the Fellowship could not cross to the East until later in the year.

I think that the fact that using the High Pass was not even considered in Rivendell means that there was more to it than just dodging a few orcs who were not under Sauron's control.
.

[Rhod the Red]

"Bilbo and company found themselves at the business end of a few rocks hurled by Stone Giants as they crossed the Misty Mountains, and Gandalf considered the possibility of borrowing one such rock to stop up the entrance to Goblin-Town. Or are you suggesting (as has been suggested before) that the Stone Giants were a product of Bilbo's fertile imagination?"

I'm sorry, I forgot that part. Though giants aren't mentioned to my memory in The Hobbit afterwars nor in The Lord of the Rings.

"I would suggest that you tone down your aggressive style as it is not conducive to reasoned discussion." I would hardly call my style aggressive. I was responsing to a point of view with contrary arguments. If I have used rude words, you will note, to use Legolas' favourite phrase, the Admin. have not edited my posts. Reasoned discissuon has not been halted by me, nor will it.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Rhod the Red

I would hardly call my style aggressive. I was responsing to a point of view with contrary arguments. If I have used rude words, you will note, to use Legolas' favourite phrase, the Admin. have not edited my posts. Reasoned discissuon has not been halted by me, nor will it.

Your posts have not been edited or deleted as we are a fairly tolerant lot here on the Downs. And, while tendentious, they do not quite qualify as trollish behaviour. Nevertheless, I would regard calling a fellow poster a liar and describing their comments as nonsense as being fairly aggressive, if not downright offensive. While there is ample room for disagreement on these discussion boards, such disagreement is best expressed politely and civilly. So please, take heed.

And I trust that’s an end to this little off-topic diversion.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Selmo and Formendacil make good arguments
about a Rhun route being questionable, but what about a
sea route to the area of Andrast using an elf ship?

[Rhod the Red]

"what about a sea route to the area of Andrast using an elf ship"

I have a reason why: It would mean that as the Fellowship would approach Mordor, it would be near the battle-centers bewteen Gondor and Mordor. It would not have been safe.

Crossing through the Misty Mountains, while hoping that Gondor would receive the brunt of Sauron's forces, was safer than travelling by the sea on the Southern shores of Gondor.

[Selmo]

Elrond rules out taking the Ring to Cirdan at the Grey Havens because it would be too dangerous. Frodo and the rest had only just made it to Rivendell and taking the Western Road back through the Shire to the sea would be anticipated by the Enemy; the road would be watched. Elrond was answering the argument that the Ring should by taken by sea to The West but it works the same for an attempt to go to Gondor by sea.

Also, Gandalf seemed to think it was very important to pass though Lorien, though he never gave his reasons.

[davem]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

Actually, there were. Bilbo and company found themselves at the business end of a few rocks hurled by Stone Giants as they crossed the Misty Mountains, and Gandalf considered the possibility of borrowing one such rock to stop up the entrance to Goblin-Town. Or are you suggesting (as has been suggested before) that the Stone Giants were a product of Bilbo's fertile imagination? If so, that's pure speculation and, in any event, contradicts the text as presented.

Interestingly (or not) the Graphic novel of The Hobbit actually depicts the Stone Giants hurling rocks.

[Rhod the Red]

"Aragorn says the risk of snow lessens in the south, and at lower altitudes. Therefore it can be logically deduced that risk of snow is greater in the north, and at higher altitudes."

He didn't assert the storms occur more North, just higher up mountain level. Again, you're infering.

"were not thinking of risks." I didn't say they weren't, Legolas.

"Aragorn uses the word "risk" in the comment at the top of this post." Did I say Aragorn doesn't mention 'risk'? I asserted no one talked about 'risk' regarding the High Pass as a passage to use.

[Legolas]

Aragorn says the risk of snow lessens in the south,

So the risk of snow must greaten in the north. If something lessens as one moves south, it greatens as one moves north. If the chance of snow lessens as you move any distance south, moving that same distance up must greaten the chance of snow. That is the nature of north and south. They are relative to one another.

Inference is not speculation in this case. To infer that a smile means good intentions is a speculative inference. To infer that north and south are exact oppisites and not exact places is not.

"were not thinking of risks." I didn't say they weren't, Legolas.

You said this while it was clear that Aragorn was talking about risk. You said "Misty Mountain passes" - not "the High Pass." If this was a misstatement, it's okay.

The only person talking about risk is you, the Fellowship didn't, nor the Council of Elrond, regarding the Misty Mountain passes.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

About arguments against heading west from Rivendell:
As it turned out the path might well have been clear if
the Fellowship had left immediately after the Council,
certainly Nazgul would have been a nonfactor, as was
quickly established (by a high probability) at the Council,
and I question using months to push that probability up
a bit by searching far to the north, south, and east, as
Aragorn etc. did- as opposed to leaving right away.

The point of encountering different cultures is a good one.
I've thought of it and it seems JRRT could have rearranged
things to cover almost all (for example, relocating Lorien
to an area in Andrast), then having the Fellowship attacked
and splitting up, the three walkers chasing orcs and Merry and
Pippin while Sam and Frodo go across south Gondor,
receiving aid from Imrahil (including crossing the Anduin).
This would still allow Aragorn's involvement in Rohan and going
on the Paths of the Dead and give Imrahil a much more
interesting/complex situation. However, it doesn't seem to
realistically allow for a direct (even if relocated) Moria
involvement. You'd probably have to cram too much into one area.

The overall point of water travel in a preindustrial age is that
it is much faster (and if deep ocean travel is avoided) generally
much safer then land travel, and coastal travel, at least to the
Andrast, would seem to fulfill those requirements.

[goldfinger]

From my own evalutations, I have come the conclusion that there was no direction which the Fellowship could have taken them that would been any safer or quicker than the others. For instance, going South would have taken them into Dunland home of the Wildmen, then there was Isengard and the very long trip through the fifes of Gondor. Going North you would have taken them either through one of the several dangerous passes crawling with Orcs, Giants and Trolls or into the Fordowaith, where many evil things such as Dragons lurked. West, would have been the very longest trip of course. Finally, East threw Rhun which would probably be the most dangerous route considering the evil kingdoms of Men that dwelt there.