The downfall of the hobbit-folk

[narfforc]

Maybe they just re-intergrated back into the species Man, This could have been caused by introducing into the gene pool the Ent-draughts that Merry and Pippin drank, causing their offspring to grow ever taller, have you noticed how big the kids are today................................

[davem]

Originally Posted by narfforc

Maybe they just re-intergrated back into the species Man, T.

Memories of Fletcher 'reading' to Ives from 'Little Women'......

[Farael]

Originally Posted by narfforc

Maybe they just re-intergrated back into the species Man, This could have been caused by introducing into the gene pool the Ent-draughts that Merry and Pippin drank, causing their offspring to grow ever taller, have you noticed how big the kids are today................................

Well, the Professor DOES give us a little insight on what happened to the hobbits... namely that they don't like big people. How could they re-integrate with the big people (the species of Man) if they disliked them?

I think Davem is on to something, the other times a "disaster" happened in The Shire the hobbits responded as an united front to repell the enemy. Also, they did it by themselves. Now, I am sure we all agree that Merry, Pippin, Sam and Frodo were not "normal" hobbits, yet their coming was needed to spark the revolution in The Shire.

The other times the hobbits responded by themselves, but this time they needed forces from the outside. Maybe it is, as Davem said, because the seed of mistrust had ben sown among them.

Originally Posted by bombi

When Aragorn became king he passed a law forbidding anyone, himself included, from passing into the Shire. Could this account for the hobbits rarity? Perhaps they did not dwindle literally, they just dwindled from the memory and lore of the humans. I at least have always favored this idea, I would find myself terribly distraught in a world without thier kind.

I must say I was not aware of such law. Could you perhaps expand on it? Why did he say so? Did it actually mean that no-one should go to the Shire or that no-one should bother them?

[davem]

Originally Posted by Farael

I must say I was not aware of such law. Could you perhaps expand on it? Why did he say so? Did it actually mean that no-one should go to the Shire or that no-one should bother them?

Tale of Years entry for 1427: 'King Elessar issues an edict that Men are not to enter the Shire, and he makes it a Free Land under the protection of the Northern Sceptre.'

[Farael]

Originally Posted by davem

Tale of Years entry for 1427: 'King Elessar issues an edict that Men are not to enter the Shire, and he makes it a Free Land under the protection of the Northern Sceptre.'

Now that's an interesting point. As the third age comes to an end and the elves leave Middle Earth, the only ones in charge of keeping record of history are men themselves, who are banned from entering The Shire. Is it possible then that something else happened to the hobbits that we are not aware of because men did not know?

[davem]

Originally Posted by Farael

Now that's an interesting point. As the third age comes to an end and the elves leave Middle Earth, the only ones in charge of keeping record of history are men themselves, who are banned from entering The Shire. Is it possible then that something else happened to the hobbits that we are not aware of because men did not know?

Possibly - though Hobbits were free to leave the Shire - Sam, Merry & Pippin certainly did, travelling to Gondor & Rohan.

[Farael]

Yes, but we know that those were the exception rather than the rule. I tend to think that even if the lands were completely safe (which probably was not quite the case) the hobbits would much rather stay in their shire than go off in adventures. After all, they didn't really know much about the world outside anyway during the third age and still they did not dare to leave their Shire

[davem]

There's also this passage from one version of Tolkien's unpublished Epilogue to LotR (downloadable here

‘No, dear,’ said Sam. ‘But he’s coming north again, as he hasn’t done since you was a mite. But now his house is ready. He won’t come into the Shire, because he’s given orders that no Big Folk are to enter the land again after those Ruffians, and he won’t break his own rules. But he will ride to the Bridge. And he’s sent a very special invitation to every one of us, every one by name.’

[narfforc]

Fareal I wasn't suggesting that The Fourth Age Age Hobbits instantly started to settle down and marry the Big Folk. It is said that Hobbits were closely related to Man in origin, what else can they be, some offshoot of The Druedain or a unreported union of Man and Dwarf. Tolkiens Origin of Species is quite informative, that is until we come to Hobbits. The Halflings are totally unnoticed until well into The Third Age, if by mutation a species of The Atani has become smaller, then by mutation it can grow larger ie: Ent Draughts. If you introduce things into a Gene Pool you can get Native American Indians with blue eyes, or Grass that we now call Wheat. Peoples can be traced in origin by language, Tolkien knew this, so what is the language stem of the Holbytla.