Tol-in-Gaurhoth XXI: Dueling Wizards Werewolf

[Diamond18]

Yeah, well, curse my habit of sleeping during the day. I got up, read all these posts, and just about screamed when I saw everyone voting for Lalaith. No one ever paid attention to my suspicions against her earlier, but the minute Eomer goes after her an instant bandwaggon forms? Evil, evil, bad things going on. I should have reacted quicker last night to Jenny's defense of Eomer... it was horribly fishy but did Diamond figure it out then, noooo. Not until Kitanna started jumping on board too, but of course by then it was too late.

Actually, what I should have done was try to kill Eomer as messily as possible the instant he said he thought I was innocent. I didn't find it wrong enough because I was innocent. But anyone with half a brain should have been going, "How is he so sure I'm innocent? I'm the only one who besides the wolves who actually knows this."

[Firefoot]

Actually, what I should have done was try to kill Eomer as messily as possible the instant he said he thought I was innocent. I didn't find it wrong enough because I was innocent. But anyone with half a brain should have been going, "How is he so sure I'm innocent? I'm the only one who besides the wolves who actually knows this."

Yeah, that happens to me a lot...

I told you all to kill Eomer... so maybe he wasn't the EW, but you still should have killed him.

[Glirdan]

Of coures you were right Firefoot. I don't know why I didn't see things earlier. Mind you, he was bugging me for sometime after I came back last week. There was just something not right. I thought that by now he would have been dead, but noooo.

[mormegil]

For those wondering I have been evil since the second day. I was the first wolf selected after the three. And you thought I was only converted the last night! What a great game. I have more to say later but it was great working with Roa, I knew her identity, I believe I was the only one. I wish I had made it victoriously to the end but well done Jenny my Daughter, Eomer my nemisis and Kitanna my friend.

Spawn a well chosen kill. She did chose me even though I would have died anyway.

[Diamond18]

Originally Posted by mormegil

For those wondering I have been evil since the second day. I was the first wolf selected after the three. And you thought I was only converted the last night!

I didn't. Well, actually, I didn't really it that much thought, I just knew I'd wanted you dead for a long time but couldn't manage any sort of decent argument for it. The one thing I felt I could have really used against you was the posts you made the last day you were alive, but Spawn took care of you before that was needed.

[Celuien]

Originally Posted by mormegil

For those wondering I have been evil since the second day. I was the first wolf selected after the three. And you thought I was only converted the last night! What a great game. I have more to say later but it was great working with Roa, I knew her identity, I believe I was the only one. I wish I had made it victoriously to the end but well done Jenny my Daughter, Eomer my nemisis and Kitanna my friend.

I have been wondering when you turned. Had a feeling it was early, though. Like Nilp, I thought you were the Good Wizard, even going so far as to think I spotted a code in one of your posts after the phantom died (as he'd suggested the GW should do). And replied in kind to the 'code.' That shows where overthinking does. At that point, I'd noticed that you and Roa seemed very similar in what kinds of things you were saying and thought she was your Seer.

Congratulations to the victorious evil team!

And great narrations, LMP. And a round of applause to the submods.

[Boromir88]

I must congradulate Roa and her wolves on an excellently played game. It was fun relaying the messages back and forth and getting to see the Evil side's strategy. Well played game by our Evil players, you guys had them on ropes most of the time.

On another note, Diamond you were so dead on in the begginning I was contradicting myself thinking if only people would listen to you, but then that would mean bad news for the Evil players.

Thanks to all for sticking through the fun...and the craziness, it was definitely an...interesting ride.

And definitely much gratitude towards LMP and Kuru, it was a pleasure to help and work alongside both of you.

[Celuien]

I just looked at the family tree again and realized that Saucy and I were the only ones connected to Morm who weren't cursed.

Where did we go wrong with our girls, Saucy? I wouldn't blame you one bit for going through with that posthumous divorce now. It seems that my family is just plain evil.

[Diamond18]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

On another note, Diamond you were so dead on in the begginning

Er, I was? And here I keep thinking I was terribly wrong about everything, except for a few lucky gut feelings here and there.

Once we find out exactly what happened (I need some kind of clear diagram of who Roa cursed each and every night before I get it) I'm going to have to read back over the thread to see if it's all a little less confusing.

It was a very intense game. I had fun part of the time and wanted to die other parts. Excellent narrations by LMP, I have to say they were the longest and most detailed narrations I've ever seen! I'm eagerly awaiting the final narration.

Are you going to do something special with all those hearts, LMP?

[Gurthang]

Originally Posted by mormegil

For those wondering I have been evil since the second day. I was the first wolf selected after the three. And you thought I was only converted the last night!

Well, that's because I didn't realize you were a wolf until that last Day I was alive.

Originally Posted by mormegil, post #851

Gurthang if you come back will you give us another list of doom so we can have one last untainted list? It seems to have been very effective so far and I think 4 is a good number.

When I read that, the only thing I thought was: "Oh, Crap! morm's a wolf!" Hearing that request for another list would have sounded completely innocent coming from anyone else, but you.... you're too calculating and smart to want the list. I was so sure that you were trying to narrow down the 'possibly gifted' list that I would have done this:

Originally Posted by nobody, but it would have been me

Here's your list:

++mormegil

Kill 'em.

Unfortunately, Kuru posted the Wizard Battle before I could say anything about it. Luckily, spawn got you that Night.

Speaking of which... was it the family thing that tipped you wolves off to my gifteds? Or was it just a lucky guess? Say what you will about me choosing my family, but the only gifteds that survived for longer than the Night they were made were spawn, Kath, and Nilp. Caran and the phantom both died the Night I gifted them.

I think that me and my family should win, just because we were all on the same side for the whole game.

[Gurthang]

Oh, and before I forget: Congratulations to Roa. You pretty much kicked my butt.

LMP, what say you to starting a Dueling Wizards Suggestion thread? That way we can talk about the game here, and give any thoughts and suggestions to the whole Wizards idea in another thread. Might keep things from piling up so much.

[Diamond18]

Originally Posted by Gurthang

LMP, what say you to starting a Dueling Wizards Suggestion thread? That way we can talk about the game here, and give any thoughts and suggestions to the whole Wizards idea in another thread. Might keep things from piling up so much.

There already is something like that. The "Taur-in-Gaurhoth Scenarios you'd like to See" thread, started by LMP. It's near the top of the page.

You did a wonderful job, Gurthang, I'm just sorry we couldn't win the game for you after you were gone. Those wolves were just too conniving.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Kit, Jenny and Morm were far more aware of the family-aspect of the gifteds; I was pretty clueless.

I thought the gifteds were two out of Spawn, Kath and Lalaith. We didn't think that Spawn was the Hunter so we were pretty devastated to find Morm dead in the morning. Kath was a strange one: she had made a post claiming that the villagers were in real trouble and I didn't think a gifted would say anything like that.

Caranlondien's guarding of me really should have led to my lynching after the gifteds were revealed. Really.

[Diamond18]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

Caranlondien's guarding of me really should have led to my lynching after the gifteds were revealed. Really.

Oh rest assured, EoWolf, if we ever play together again I will not rest until you have died in a particularly nasty way....

[Kitanna]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

Kit, Jenny and Morm were far more aware of the family-aspect of the gifteds; I was pretty clueless.

I was as clueless as you until someone mentioned it after Spawn and Kath died. Then I just sort of pieced things together.

I finally survived until the end and I'm glad to have done it with such sneaky teammates. Also ever since Morm got me lynched in my very first WW I've always been afraid of his wolfing skill and never wanted to be against him again, so I'm real glad I finished off the game on his side.

But a great game by everyone. It was one of the most enjoyable games I've ever played in.

[Caranlondien]

Ack! I protected a werewolf! Well, I was suspicious of him, but I thought if he were innocent Eomer would be a likely wolf kill that night... [/attempt to salvage my ego]

Congratulations to you wolves (and to the EW), though now I will never trust my former orcish companions Roa and Jenny. You two are just plain evil!

And excellently modded, LMP! This was a great game, and I'd like to see another Dueling Wizards. I hope you'll be modding again - I loved the narrations!

[Diamond18]

I've been conditioned over my past three games (not to mention Roa's shenaigans in this one) for the bad'uns to attack me and try to get me lynched. I always knew there's the possibility of them trying to get on my good side, but I didn't see it until too late.

Actually, if I'm being totally honest, this is what made me suspicious of Eomer, more so than the Oddwen vote and the Lalaith attack:

Originally Posted by LMP

"Diamond is innocent," Eomer declared.

...

"I think Eomer's innocent," Diamond said, batting her eyelashes at him gratefully. Then resuming her twenty-years-his-senior dignity she said, "Ergo, I don't want him to die. I vote Oddwen."

Paul, Paul, Paulio -- I knew we weren't supposed to be looking for hints in the narrative, and this wasn't intentional I am sure -- but when I read this I couldn't shake the thought from my mind that maybe I was supposed to be grateful to Eomer and lay off him because he'd voiced confidence in my innocence. Especially since I'd never mentioned being grateful in my posts, but this grateful attitude somehow appeared in your portrayal of my vote in the narration. That really wasn't it -- I just have not played with Eomer before and way underestimated his talent for feeling fair and being foul. Lalaith kept saying it but my mind was clouded with my own suspicions of her, so I kept doubting everything she said, even when it made sense. Sorry, Lal.

I also kept trying to put the narration out of my mind. Even if it was a slip on LMP's part it didn't seem quite fair to be using that. So I avoided mentioning it in my post where I voiced suspicions about being used as a puppet, and kept trying to talk myself out of thinking that way. Well, from now on I will fully take advantage of such slips, and I don't care if the mod doesn't like it.

Grr. Anyway, I'm still kicking myself and obsessing over this because I saw it all so clearly reading the posts today, then just as it all came together in my head, everyone was voting for Lalaith and LMP declared the game over and I didn't even get a chance to do anything. Argh. (Not that it would have mattered, Zali's vote was the one innocent they needed and without Fea around there was no one else to vote for Eomer, but still.)

[Glirdan]

The first indication I got of him being evil was actually back Day 6 (I think it was Day 6, or was it 7? ) when he said his little bit about Lmp changing his mind about the quiet ones (aka, the non-voters/posters). Something about that post didn't sit right with me and hasn't ever since. Grrr!! I wish I would have lived!! That way, I could have been yelling "Lynch him! Lynch him!" at everyone instead of at the computer screen.

[Diamond18]

The first indication I got of him being evil was actually back Day 6 (I think it was Day 6, or was it 7? ) when he said his little bit about Lmp changing his mind about the quiet ones (aka, the non-voters/posters).

If I had been smart I would have picked up on that. But actually, since I had just modded a game I could see the conundrum of being faced with killing your wolves for missing a day, and so I could see his point. I didn't actually think you were a wolf, though I thought Zali might be, but I still thought there wasn't anything wrong with Eomer getting that idea. Oh well, just another item to add to the list of the many things I did wrong this game. That's the problem, ain't it, the wolves were all such good players that even when they were suspected people just couldn't come up with lynch cases that other people would get behind. It's sadly true that the votes for Jenny came across as random and unsubstantiated, which only played into her hands. Tch.

Anyway, I might as well say it again, Lalaith you got everything right, so sorry I kept doubting you till it was too late.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Hahahahahaha!!! That's for our fallen comrades (especially my dear father, Alcarillo), and, of course, the glory of the Evil Wizard herself! What an honour to slay innocent villagers with such talented players.

LMP, excellent modding. The family and relationship aspect especially made your narrations brilliant fun. I've been meaning to ask for a while now, is the Dueling Wizards concept your own?

I could talk about this for days (and probably will) but first, there is something I must say. Cailín, on that fateful night I was turned, I had no part in your death. That's the honest truth. I still love my family. Can you ever forgive me? Phantom?

Everyone played their part in this game, one of the most fun we've ever had.

[littlemanpoet]

I promise that the narrations will be coming. Now that I'm not under the gun for them, I plan on really juicing the last ones.

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

LMP, excellent modding. The family and relationship aspect especially made your narrations brilliant fun. I've been meaning to ask for a while now, is the Dueling Wizards concept your own?

Uh, yes, it was my own. *LMP shrugs* I wanted to do a werewolf game that had a really strong Tolkienean thematic feel to it (at least to me), and I wanted to see if I could do something sort of like Saruman versus Gandalf, and then the creative juices got going. The rest is, as they say, history. Great fun modding.

Originally Posted by Gurthang

LMP, what say you to starting a Dueling Wizards Suggestion thread? That way we can talk about the game here, and give any thoughts and suggestions to the whole Wizards idea in another thread. Might keep things from piling up so much.

Good thought. I'll do that. There is that "Scenarios you'd like to see" thread, but I think there will be enough discussion regarding "dueling wizards" to get its own thread.

Originally Posted by Diamond

Are you going to do something special with all those hearts, LMP?

You'll just have to wait for the narrations.

Originally Posted by Eomer

Could we maybe get a list of the people who volunteered to be a wizard?

Sure. Here you go:

Kath
Diamond
Roa_Aoife
Valier
Sleepy Ranger
mormegil
Gurthang

I asked Kuru and Boro for their opinions, which I considered in my selection. I'll let them say any more about that themselves.

Originally Posted by Celuien

I'd love to see some stats for this game: who was turned when and how and why.

Coming.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

... did Loki know before day1 started that he was first a wolf and then an ordo, or not?

Yes he did.

And now, the List:

Night One
ew: Nogrod, Naria, Loki
gw: Loki
2 werewolves: Nogrod & Naria
kill: Elempi
Note: Loki cursed then uncursed in the same night; he knew .... and bragged about it.

Night Two

ew: Alcarillo
gw: Nilpaurion Felagund - - seer
dream: none
werewolves: Nogrod, Naria, Alcarillo
kill: The Saucepan Man
Note: Good Team strategic error #1: seer did not dream.

Night Three

ew: mormegil
gw: the phantom becomes the hunter
seer: Cailín (innocent)
the hunter: no pick
werewolf kill: the phantom
Note: the phantom refused to pick, wanting to discuss picks with the GW; he never got a chance.
Note#2: Valier's instincts should have been paid greater attention. We mods & submods were frankly boggling over how right-on she was about EVERYONE. Fuzzy logic, maybe, but on tarret.

Night Four

ew: Valier, Eomer, Nilpaurion
gw: Spawn
seer: Firefoot
werewolf kills: Gurthang, Cailín
Note: Gurthang was not killed but knew that he had been found out.
Note #2: Good team strategic error #2: naming the innocents far, far too early.

Night Five

ew: Jenny joins Alcarillo, Mormegil, & Eomer.
gw: Kath
seer: (Kath): no dream
hunter: (Spawn): Nilpaurion
werewolf kills: A. Firefoot. B. Nilpaurion
Note: Good team strategic error #3: the seer again fails to dream.

Night Six

ew: Kitanna
gw: Caranlondien
seer: (Kath) Roa dreamed of as Evil Wizard
ranger: (Caranlondien) protecting Eomer
hunter: (Spawn) hunted Sleepy Ranger
werewolf kills: Lommy & Caranlondien
Note: Good Team strategic error #4: gifted picks all in the family ... way too obvious.

Night Seven

seer dream: Diamond
hunter quarry: Mormegil
kill 1: Dancing Spawn
kill 2: Kath

Night Eight: Glirdan

Night Nine: Zali (narrative coming soon)

In my dry runs, I assumed that the Good Wizard would closely guard his/her known innocents as if they were a most prized possession. I was stunned when the innocents were named, and not surprised when Roa quickly dispatched them.

Narrative to come later tonight....

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Ten hours I spent online on my first two DAYs as Seer (sneaking in while working), and what does it get me?

Nothing. I miss the most important part of a game.

Anybody want to lend me enough to buy a plane ticket to a better timezone? Like, Finland, for example?

[Lhunardawen]

Bah! How long 'til you learn that Eomer must be killed DAY ONE?

So sorry I had to drop out, but it all worked for the best, RL-wise. Thanks for my suicide, Elempi.

Now everyone, back to work!

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Nilpaurion Felagund

Anybody want to lend me enough to buy a plane ticket to a better timezone? Like, Finland, for example?

Maybe we could take a collection for you?

I lived to play in this game though I was rather surprised to be killed by the wolves. I usually tend to survive to the end, or die by lynching.

I was also quite surprised of so many people stating that I wouldn't be a good pick for the EW because I usually gather so much suspicion early. I've never noticed that! I'm always suspected a bit, but usually it's a clear minority that suspects me. In the mid-game I tend to get nearöy lynched, but am really lynched quite seldom.

And I really was so frustrated with Roa all the time I was alive. Positively frustrated; she didn't make me angry or anything like that. I continuosly suspected her, but as I first thought she is very probably the seer or the GW ( ) and then later when she disappeared from Gurthang's list I thought she was the new hunter. So, I never got to voice my suspicions, since there was always some suspicion of her and I feared that if I added to it, she'd be lynched. Thinking about it now, that would have been only a good thing to do...

Originally Posted by LMP

Night Five
----------
hunter: (Spawn): Nilpaurion

I can very well see spawn's reasoning here, but... Am I the only one who finds this amusing?

[The Saucepan Man]

First of all, to those who think that it is only non-students who have sufficient time to devote to the intricacies of being a Wizard, you have a shock awaiting you when you graduate ...

As has been shown, I did not volunteer to be a Wizard and never had any intention of doing so. It was bad enough simply trying to keep up on Day 1 and, as it was a weekend, I never really got into my stride.

Thus, I was incredibly disappointed to be killed on Night 2. Grrr! I shall never forgive Roa and her Wolves for that. I suspect that Nogrod nominated me in revenge for the last game ...

It was, perhaps, just as well though as it did mean that I had more time to devote to work and family. The most frustrating thing was that I had only just had the chance to review in more detail what had happened on Day 1, apply my mind to it and work up a bleedin' great post when I found out that I was dead. I was not expecting that as I was rather banking on the fact that the evil team might be interested in my services later in the game.

To engage in a little trumpet blowing, I had overnight worked out that Nogrod was most probably a Wolf and that the Evil Wizard was likely to be either Diamond, Fea or Roa. I suspected that the phantom might be the Good Wizard and that his advice to the GW was a way of masking it. So I got it into my head that the two opposing Wizards were TP and Fea. But Roa was most definately on my list.

As for the Loki thing, I was working on the assumption that a player chosen by both Wizards would not be told of this. That's why I misutrusted his claim. It was foolish to lynch him though, as he was either telling the truth or, if he was not, behaving too recklessly for a Wolf.

And, in the same vein, I would add to the list of mistakes by the good side. Lynching both Sleepy and Oddwen (as well as Loki) for their "suspicious" behaviour was a classic error - committed not once, not twice, but three times! Wolves rarely act that suspiciously. I have learned from experience that it's the ones who act least suspiciously that you should always fear.

Great game, though, everyone. I was disappointed to be killed so early on, but read on with interest. And greatly flattered by all the reasoning as to why I had been killed.

Kudos to lmp and his able assistants, Boro and Kuru, for an wonderfully modded game. And congratulations, I suppose, to Roa and her pack, who played an excellent game. I claim my part in the victory, by virtue of my offspring, Naria and Kitanna (not to mention my father- and sister-in law).

You are right, Celuien. Where on Arda did we go wrong with them?

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

Thus, I was incredibly disappointed to be killed on Night 2. Grrr! I shall never forgive Roa and her Wolves for that. I suspect that Nogrod nominated me in revenge for the last game ...

Sorry to disappoint you, but this one you got wrong. I had a couple of nominees to kill and none of them was you. I thought you would be a good sport later in the game and wouldn't like to see you go so early. I hate wolves who kill the interesting players to begin with. That's cowardish gaming.

But the EW decides when the wolves can't agree on it...

[Kitanna]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

I claim my part in the victory, by virtue of my offspring, Naria and Kitanna (not to mention my father- and sister-in law).

You are right, Celuien. Where on Arda did we go wrong with them?

It's all Eomer's fault, he's such a bad influence.

[Diamond18]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

And, in the same vein, I would add to the list of mistakes by the good side. Lynching both Sleepy and Oddwen (as well as Loki) for their "suspicious" behaviour was a classic error - committed not once, not twice, but three times! Wolves rarely act that suspiciously. I have learned from experience that it's the ones who act least suspiciously that you should always fear.

While I reserve the right to respectfully disagree about Loki () I was extremely frustrated by the deaths of Sleepy and Oddwen. Sleepy, I did not vote for because I didn't honestly find him wolvish, but I was frustrated enough with him not really explaining his votes or participating in any discussion that I went ahead and voted Lalaith instead of votoing Jenny (which I believe would have got her lynched instead, as I recall the count was Sleepy 3 and Jenny 2 and the clinching vote against Sleepy was cast after mine -- ie I could have made a 3-3 tie in which Jenny was killed). But that was the problem with sticking too closely to my list of likely wolves... I believe it was Morm, Lalaith, Kitanna, and Eomer at the top and when Morm died I was bolstered by this and decided to get Lalaith or die trying. *sigh* The Oddwen vote I am still kicking myself for (Sorry Oddwen!) because I realized even as I committed the act that it was the same bad reasoning that had got an innocent Sleepy killed. But as no one had voted for Lalaith that day, and Lalaith had voted Eomer, I went with my anti-Lalaith stance and voted to save Eomer. That day was a general disaster for me though -- you might (or might not) have noticed that I only posted twice that day, because I was feeling quite frustrated by the whole thing.

It's all Eomer's fault, he's such a bad influence.

Say, does this count as a Lovers victory?

[mormegil]

I must apologize to Valier because we chose her to specifically be cannon fodder. I found a point of attack the previous day and it helped to fit into my 'theory' that she was the wolf converted on the night that I was converted. I thought that this would help cover my tracks a bit. So during a discussion with Roa we decided it would be a good idea to convert her and attack her. I also gained permission to attack Alcarillo as I found it difficult to lay off him after I started my attack.

The most difficult thing about being a wolf was not knowing who are your allies. I could find suspicious things in people, Alcarillo for example, but I never knew if he was in fact a wolf until I went after him. Also I found shifting alliances was a bit difficult on the first day of conversion; I only hoped that I wouldn't be scried by Gurthang and changed back and have to shift alliances again .

SpM if it were up to me I would have left you in longer.