Arwen

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Liv Tyler (to me) is like that typical, ordinary, beautiful girl on the street, because she doesn't have to do anything spectacular to look good.

But Arwen shouldn't look ordinary or freaky ... she is meant to strike people dumb in the presence of her beauty (or like a girl I was at college who caused guys to crash their cars just by walking by ). But really I probably could have got over the look if she acted better. She never seemed more than an adolescent throwing a tantrum; never gave the impression that she had lived three millenia ...... Miranda Otto and Viggo Mortensen were not how I imagined Eowyn and Aragorn either but they were utterly convincing.

[Cailín]

I must say I agree with Macalaure and not with you, Mith. It is impossible to find a girl who everybody will think drop dead gorgeous. As Valier said, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. There are some women in the filming industry nowadays - like Angelina Jolie and Jessica Alba - who are considered to be the top beauties, but neither one of them could have made a convincing Arwen, I think. I wonder who you would have in mind. I personally think PJ was looking for the otherworldly quality instead of a regular beauty.

When you look at the modelling industry today (I am a fashion freak, I admit it) you see that models like Gemma Ward and Devon Aoki are scarily successful: all women who have something freaky or alienesque about them. Ten years ago, no fashion editor would have glanced at them twice. In the days of Yeats, Maud Gonne was considered the edge of beauty. When you look at her portrait with a modern eye, hardly anyone finds her so.

With such shifting views of what is beautiful and not, Arwen needed to be timeless. While in many eyes she may be ugly and while we cannot predict whether future generations will see her beauty or not, Liv Tyler does have this Elvish quality, the something not quite ordinary aura surrounding and that will remain.

Added to that, the people who do think she's gorgeous, think she's divine. There's hardly an in between. Some men will certainly freeze in midstep when seeing her walk by. Besides, isn't having such power freaky in itself?

Of course, I am totally prejudiced. But that's not the issue.

P.S. I cannot judge her acting skills. Blaming the director for that.

[Mithalwen]

I think you misunderstand what I was saying...I meant that it was illogical to praise Liv Tyler for the role because of her ordinariness when Arwen was meant to be amazing.

I have to admit that I haven't "found" my ideal Arwen yet ... but as I said it is her acting rather than her looks that failed to convince in the end - I ended up illogically hoping the silly girl would die just to stop her pouting Maybe she was not served well by the script.

I feel that Cate Blanchett, somehow was perfect even though if you analyse her features then you might say they are not "classic" - but as Francis Bacon said there is " no beauty that hath not some proportion of strangeness in it." She really is lovely, timeless and other worldly ..and can act... but maybe I am biased towards people with aquiline noses and rusty hair

[Cailín]

I think you misunderstand what I was saying...I meant that it was illogical to praise Liv Tyler for the role because of her ordinariness when Arwen was meant to be amazing.

Then I do think I misread. I thought the 'freaky' was referring to Macalaure's points about the girl.

Ah, we all have our prejudices.

[Mithalwen]

No I meant my cousin's opinion that she looked like an alien. Honestly he contorts when he sees her as if in pain...

[Boromir88]

Mith, well I can't expect a lady to understand the manly mind (or at least mine). I think it's you that has misunderstood me. I didn't mean Liv Tyler looked like your ordinary girl. But, she's got that quality where she doesn't have to do anything spectacular to herself to look good. It's Liv Tyler's classic beauty that is what's so attractive about her. Again, she doesn't need to wear make-up, or starve herself to look good, she already does. Though I agree with you about her acting, she was definitely bad.

[ninja91]

Sorry, Letty. I cant agree with you there. Borormir88 is right about her beauty, but not her acting. Now I am going to be clear: Liv Tyler is not the hottest in the world. But she is a beauty, and thats for sure. She is perfect for Arwen. She says the words perfectly, and she fills the part to its complete. I dont see how she wasnt acting well. As for Elrond, Hugo Weaving was perfect. A stern, wise looking guy is what Elrond was, and Weaving is just that. I think that the casting for these two was terrific.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Mith, But, she's got that quality where she doesn't have to do anything spectacular to herself to look good. It's Liv Tyler's classic beauty that is what's so attractive about her. Again, she doesn't need to wear make-up, or starve herself to look good, she already does..

Well I never claimed to have a great understanding of the male mind, even/especially yours my friend but what you don't understand is the amount of effort, time and money it takes to maintain the natural look ..at least after 25 :P If you think any actress has a regime that involves nothing more than soap and water..... take a look in any woman's bathroom cupboard and multiply by 10 at least ...