Tol-in-Gaurhoth XXI: Dueling Wizards Werewolf

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Gurthang / about Loki

1. He's a newbie, and likely to survive.

Face it. Most of us have soft spots for new guys. We want them to get a good feel for the game, and so don't usually lynch them for the first few days. I think if Loki hadn't made such a big deal about being the 'chosen one' then he would have survived for about half the game.

2. I believe in giving people a chance to prove themselves.

Okay, like everybody, I want my chance to do something amazing. I got it in my first game as the first ever Black Beorning. I thought Loki deserved a shot at proving what he could do with a gift.

3. He seems intelligent to me.

Despite his in-your-face nature, from what I've seen he's a bright guy. I think he could have done a lot for either side. Hence him being wanted on both sides.

I agree with you on all this (especially in 2 & 3). And somehow I'm sorry I had to be one of those actually arranging his lynch on DAY1. But it was as well a surprise to just note that in five minutes I had gotten a three-vote lead in the lynching-line, the others behind me being Loki, Spm and Lommy. Clearly Loki was my best choice to try to lynch on that point instead of me.

But I also agree with Di and Cailín, that personality matters do get involved in these games, and Loki wasn't exactly the guy most people would like to stick around... that was one of the things I could count for during that evening. It was irrational, but it worked.

So Loki, please! You would make just an excellent WW-player, if you would cool down a bit (I'm the one saying this! But then again I have somewhat tried to tone down my playing from the first games). With all the boasting you'll face a high possibility of more DAY1 lynches to come. And I would really like to see you getting further in a game to show what you really can do there (I'm having expectations).

I mean people are brilliant in this game in different ways. If you truly are intelligent, you see it and accept it too... Just having an analytical mind doesn't get you far if you can't otherwise adjust youself to the game, and well, just playing with others, not just by yourself. (And I'm not saying this with any malice now, just as a suggestion for more enjoyable games)

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Diamond

Yeah. If he hadn't been such a you-know-what he could have, should have, etc. But he was and he didn't. His pre-game attitude told me exactly what kind of player he'd be and how quickly he would die, and for good reason. And look what happened.

I thoroughly agree with this. It was clear that he would be an abrasive player from his pre-game posts. That's why he was not on my list of likely Wolves and why I did not believe his claim (thinking that a player chosen by both Wizards would not be told of this). Either way, though, he should not have been lynched. He was clearly (in my view) innocent.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by The Saucepan Man

That's why he was not on my list of likely Wolves and why I did not believe his claim (thinking that a player chosen by both Wizards would not be told of this).

I was under the very same impression and only started to think about it differently after Roa started her attack on me first on those grounds (that I knew that he knew - and that I knew the case... complicated stuff this WW-gaming sometimes )

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Diamond

Just don't tell me how to play the game. (I cannot stress this enough.) I cite Cailín's excellent post on why the personality aspect is a viable part of the game and not to be taken lightly.

But what if it is my style of play to try and take charge, which it is. Why should I change my style to suit yours? My point here is that I agree that the personality aspect is viable and we all have different personalities. You've gotten after me before for trying to take charge but I will continue it because I feel it is the best contribution I can give to WW.

[Boromir88]

I actually suggest trying a new style everytime you play. Or atleast, that's what I like to do, I like to mix it up and try new things to suit the village. Though I guess I've always been one of the blabber-mouths, at least I tell myself I'm playing different from past games. Anyway, it's just something that I like to do to amuse myself in a way ...how will I play this game? And how will the village see my play?

[Alcarillo]

Originally Posted by Roa

Night two
Alcarillo- what can I say? I wanted someone who would survive just long enough to to keep my werewolf population up, but could still be used later either by me or another wolf. (No offense, Alc.)

Ha! None at all. I was honored to have been chosen! Unfortunately, silence wasn't much of a disguise this time around.

A quick congrats to the victorious wolves. Roa had told me before my death that Eomer was another wolf, so I was praying that final day that Lal would be lynched (sorry, Lal).

Excellent game, everybody.

[Diamond18]

Originally Posted by mormegil

But what if it is my style of play to try and take charge, which it is. Why should I change my style to suit yours? My point here is that I agree that the personality aspect is viable and we all have different personalities. You've gotten after me before for trying to take charge but I will continue it because I feel it is the best contribution I can give to WW.

Personality conflicts are to be expected. I don't recall meaning to "get after" you, morm, though I of course haven't hesitated to disagree with you. If you are referring to when you told people to stop posting so much, well, I disagreed because I feel that was somewhat unfairly telling people how to play. We could get into a run-around of "My playing style is to tell others how to play, therefore telling me not to tell you how to play is telling me how to play," and on some technical level there's a point in that. So, I'll remedy that by amending my statement to, "Tell me how to play if you want but don't for a second expect me to obey." Which is sort of like saying not to tell me how to play, only friendlier, because I have your waste of breath in mind. If my playing is ever considered odious, of course, I invite anyone to lynch me for it as I can well understand the need to get rid of odiousness. I didn't vote to lynch you, morm, just because we had that disagreement over playing style, because I didn't consider it a lynching offense. Seeing as you were a wolf, maybe I should have.

Now, my statement you quoted was mostly directed at Roa's seeming assumption that she is an authority on good and bad judgement. Or that it even matters. It's a game, we're imperfect humans, we don't do things the way others think we should and that sometimes have bad results (I'm not going to stand here and say I'm proud of my Oddwen vote or my trust in the innocence of Valier, Eomer, and Jenny!) but for others to stand up like Loki and Roa and say things like "You played quite poorly" or "horribly" or "thoughtlessly" or with "bad judgement" is to assume that they themselves have never been wrong, made mistakes, or done things that were mistakes in the eyes of others. Trust me, when we do something wrong in Werewolf, we can figure it out pretty quickly on our own. Espeically if we're getting lynched for it. Some of us, anyway. And those that can't won't get it, period. Basically, there's no need for the firing line or the 100 lashes afterwards. (I would not even be posting this if Roa and Loki hadn't so charmingly offered their sparklingly criticisms -- unasked.)

Strong personalities and opinions such as your, mine, and Roa's are bound to clash. We may sometimes lose our tempers with each other, especially in a particularly tense game, and such cases there will be need for coolling off and apologizing for snapping too hard. We will, I suspect, always be debating these sorts of things. I will respond to things you and she say which I don't agree with, but I hope that we can keep even our strong arguments below the line of outright brawls, which is why I tend to overtype in explaining my motivations, rather than just saying "sod off" or something like that.

[the phantom]

1. I thought that a Night 2 wolf attack on me was fairly likely. I was sort of surprised to be picked as Hunter that night. I assumed the GW would pick a Ranger first. If I would've been made the Ranger, I would've protected myself, which would've been good since the Wolves attacked me. I refused to make a Hunter pick because the odds of hitting a wolf weren't good and I could not communicate with my Wizard during the Night to receive direction.

2. I was worried that a pick would be demanded from me. If I would've been forced to pick, Roa would've been my target. lmp- what would have happened in the game and in the narrative had I, the Hunter, picked the EW as my target?

3. Roa turned out to be a wizard, just like I said on Day 1! As the game went on and I watched from beyond the grave, I never changed my opinion on that. Also, I began leaning specifically towards Roa=EW (as opposed to GW) after I was killed. (sorry, but I just had to pat myself on the back for that)

4. Gurthang was not my top suspect for GW, but at the same time I wasn't overly shocked to learn it was him.

5. The lack of Seer dreams- ouch.

6. Eomer- I had you pegged, m'boy. I believed you were a wolf, and Lalaith was innocent. You can't fool your brother.

7. I also believed fairly firmly in the innocence of Oddwen, Diamond, and Zali at the time of their deaths. Go me.

8. But on the other hand, I incorrectly suspected the innocent Glirdan, and I didn't particularly suspect wolves Nogrod and morm. Kudos to Spawn for taking morm down.

And one last thing. I'm just curious about this Roa. What did you think when I posted this on Day 1?

+ + Roa

...because Roa is a Wizard, of course.

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by the phantom

I was worried that a pick would be demanded from me. If I would've been forced to pick, Roa would've been my target. lmp- what would have happened in the game and in the narrative had I, the Hunter, picked the EW as my target?

You should have done it, phantom. You would not have been able to kill her, but you would have identified her and reported back to Gurthang that Roa was the EW. It would have created a likely good team win. In a real hurry.