Tol-in-Gaurhoth XXII: Hic Monstrae Trucidant

[Thinlómien]

I could maybe join the "I hate Day 1s"-club. Everybody's just babbling nonsense except a few changeling-speculations.

I would like to say that Cailín's usually more reasonable and her behaviour today worries me, but the prevailing conditions being retractable votes and Day 1, I really can't say anything, except that whoever the wolves are it's easy to hide for them toDay.

I think that it's quite probable that at least one wolf-on-wolf-vote will be thrown toDay and be retracted.

My lunch break draws to its end, so I have to go. I will be back before Nightfall...

edit: xed with spawn

[Nogrod]

I know this may sound futile to some, but I still think we should explore, or at least pay heed to all possible (even though unprobable) sides of the game dynamics when there are new things around.

We all were asked about our animal for the game. Now it was actually an Eagle and a Turtle that killed Kath. I don't know, whether it helps us a lot toDay (we can always speculate about them if we wish), but if the same three animals seem to appear on the nightly kills, we should probably take them more seriously.

I agree with Spawn and Lommy about looking more closely the votes cast early on and also the banter.

= Spawn
Seeing that the Changeling has the power to decide on the Night's kill, s/he could just pick someone who looks the most suspicious to him/her (I assume s/he can't choose to kill the Wolf whose role s/he stole) - or can't the Wolves kill each other?

I kind of remember that she can't kill the wolf she picked, but she is able to kill another wolf. And then of course she may reveal the wolf she picked later (among a possible host of innocents). That's why I'd ike to call her our second Seer. Now if we could just come up with means for the Changeling and the Seer to distribute the picks among themselves so that they wouldn't overlap, like the one picking up the loudmouths and the other the quieter ones or something...

[Lhunardawen]

What?! Kath dead? Three werewolves? This wasn't in the pamphlet...

Wait, Animalia? What am I doing here? I'm supposed to be in Animalta!

Oh well...

There's only one thing I can say right now: Form is the Changeling. Look at him, he's a homeless wanderer.

Day Ones are simply wonderful, aren't they?

[Lhunardawen]

After a bit of thinking - directionless for the most part - I finally understood what Nogrod meant by calling the Changeling the second Seer. Doh! He'll know the roles and get to play them for a time. With there having more innocents than fiends, then he's more likely to pick an innocent, and a well-timed revelation of what he knows and what the Seer knows will lead us closer to victory - even without double lynches.

A downside, though a bit unlikely, here is if the Changeling is inherently evil and chooses to play for the dark side. Like if he catches the Seer one Night and a wolf the next, he could kill the Seer for the lycans. Unlikely, as I said, though still very probable.

I don't know about you guys, but I hate it when someone holds this much power.

[littlemanpoet]

Frolic frolic

Feels like early morning here and the graves don't dig themselves. However I have a moment.

++ FORMENDACIL

I just don't trust him. Lupine. Wolvish. Sneak.

[Lhunardawen]

I guess I must be off. I leave you with

++THE GUY WHO BE SHORT

because who knows what beast he might use against one of us next?

Now, if you'll excuse me...which way is the hut where I'm staying?

[Boromir88]

I don't understand all the gloom about retractable votes. They could be a great benefit to the village. Let's say if you're a wolf, instead of one carefully planned vote, you can go back and change your strategy, perhaps to save a partner, perhaps to lynch a suspected gifted...etc. See wolves no who's on their side, retractable votes can be a benefit to them, but also to their own demise.

Also, retractable votes have no bearing on the voting record, which is still an important key to deciding who's a wolf and who isn't.

Since I'm innocent I can't say how retractable votes benefit me. That will only give the wolves clues to my thought process, and inside information to my own mind. And that's not good, if the wolves know their victims they are much more dangerous. So, I prefer to with hold information as to some things that I feel like doing (retracting votes for instance).

Retractable votes create confusion. There are lots of early votes thrown around... I understand people just want to stir the discussion a bit, or have fun, but wouldn't that make a perfect cover for a wolf? Especially when there's plenty of these random votes around...~Thinlomien

If this is directed to me, I accept your challenge...

--Sauce

++Lommy

Retractable votes create confusion? The only confusion it would create a hastle for is for Kath...who's now dead, so it shouldn't matter. Please explain, I want to hear what makes retractable votes "confusing?" (Note: Anyone can step up to the plate on this one if they have an explanation...I'm merely trying to understand this view of retractable votes being confusing and useless. I've explained the why not, now I want to hear the "why's").

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

A lot of people are acting more carelessly than usual. Yes, it might be just that villagers want to change their style every now and then, but it might also be a wolf with an identity crisis.

The villager's who are looking different in that sense are Boromir, Formendacil and perhaps Cailín.

Form seems more frustrated and complains about Day One more than usually. He has posted twice, but he hasn't really said anything. There's no need to decide beforehand that Day Ones are horrible and act in a gloomy and unhelpful way, you know. There are other sides in this game, too, than scrolling through pages and pages for making analyses. I find Day 1s to be great - only a bit different from the rest of the Days.
Form has no suspicions since he can't associate a turtle with any of the villagers, so he gives a heads-up concerning his comings and goings.
He says that things are going normally, and he'll be back when someone has managed to make themselves a lynching candidate.

Boromir, on the other hand, is more fickle than usual. First he posts in character that he wants to assassinate spawn, and he says that things doesn't look good.

He isn't surprised to be found on Fea's list of "Big Scary Things", but he says that Fea's vengeful attitude is going to get her into trouble. Is that a... threat? He votes for spawn.

Boromir points out that the votes are retractable, and he sure is taking an advantage of that. He changes his vote for Sauce, and says that he's saving Sauce from being ripped apart at Night.

He defends retractable votes, but doesn't explain how they're going to help him. Boromir gives an example how these votes benefit the wolves, but doesn't tell how he thinks that they help innocents in general. He votes for Lommy because she said that retractable votes can confuse us and he disagrees.

I think the votes cause confusion because it's harder to keep track of how many votes someone currently has, and why someone changed their opinion. I expect to see some interesting "excuses" for changing a vote as the Days pass by which might later help those who have ridiculous amounts of time to browse the voting records while making analyses, but madly voting anyone who crosses your road isn't the only way to take advantage of the new system. Since everyone knows that they can change their votes whenever they like, casting a vote doesn't have the same weight in gauging lynchees' reactions since, especially toDay, I suspect that people want to have a bit of fun with voting for each other before they decide on their final vote.


Cailín has been hastier and more careless than usual. On the other hand she's a tragedienne, but she has been quick to accuse people with "Day 1" reasons. She voted for Lhuna because... it was in the script? However, this has been crazier first Day than normally, and that voting frenzy seems contagious. She promised to be more like herself later, so I look forward to that.


Sauce, that's a good way to tally the votes, I think. If only I could find a button in my keyboard for making that unequal mark...

[tom bombariffic]

This is going to be an interesting day.

At the moment, no-one has said anything to majorly rouse my suspicions - a symptom of first-day-itis, I suspect. I can't guarantee that I will be back by voting time, though I hope to be, and so I will cast a vote for

++Boromir88

To explain, there were just a couple of niggling things about his long post. He says that

[retractable votes] can be of great benefit to the village

but follows this up by saying that

Since I'm innocent I can't say how retractable votes benefit me

I also found the emphasis on his own innocence very overt.

There is no real evidence against boromir. But the above caught my suspicious attention in a way that no other posts had done so far, so I have voted with my instinct, which is the best way to get started on a group of people with clean slates.

Glad to be in the village.

bombariffic

[Mithalwen]

Just checking in ... going to read but probably won't be able to comment til after work. Busy time in the aura industry....

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Lhunardawen

After a bit of thinking - directionless for the most part - I finally understood what Nogrod meant by calling the Changeling the second Seer. Doh! He'll know the roles and get to play them for a time. With there having more innocents than fiends, then he's more likely to pick an innocent, and a well-timed revelation of what he knows and what the Seer knows will lead us closer to victory - even without double lynches.

A downside, though a bit unlikely, here is if the Changeling is inherently evil and chooses to play for the dark side. Like if he catches the Seer one Night and a wolf the next, he could kill the Seer for the lycans. Unlikely, as I said, though still very probable.

I don't know about you guys, but I hate it when someone holds this much power.

Well, I don't like the situation very much either, but we just have to cope with it.

Well, let's hope the Changeling plays on the good side and if she plays on the wrong side, she doesn't catch the seer. But as said before, it would profit the Changeling herself more if she was on the Good side.

And more frolicing... I hope the situation is a bit better when I come back this evening. (I'm in +3 GMT.)

Day One is pretty useless on Day One, but on the next Days, it is usually even more useful than one could suspect.

edit: xed with Boromir

[Thinlómien]

I didn't say retractables are not a benefit to the village, because they are, in some situations. I just don't like people toying with them.

And now I'm really going. I'll be back.

[Celuien]

Morning stop in...

++ NILP

Because someone has to vote for him.

And I don't like the lynch SPM, Morm and Fea plan.

Possibly to be retracted later.

[Caranlondien]

Originally Posted by Durelin

I disagree on the 'un-thought-out' bit, at least on my part. I assure you, my vote for him was not purely out of a rush to save you. Sorry, but it wasn't. (considering you hadn't revealed yourself yet when I voted).

Actually, I meant un-thought-out on my part. At the end there, TGWBS and I were both willing to vote for someone else, but didn't have time to compare and contrast. While I was somewhat suspicious of SpM all along, at that point my vote for him had really just been to save myself.

Now, an analysis:

Lommy
Day One
Post #31: Thinks the Changeling will mostly help us - even as a wolf, may mess up wolves' plans. Points out they might also mess up the gifteds' plans. Doesn't like retractable votes

#33: Says everyone's babbling nonsense. Thinks Cailin's acting lessn reasonable than usual, but that's probably because of the retractable votes. Thinks it will be easy for the wolves to hide on Day One. Thinks it's likely there will be a wolf-on-wolf vote, which will then be retracted.

#40: Agrees with Lhuna that she doesn't like having someone (the Changeling) hold this much power, but says we'll just have to deal with it. Emphasizes the Changeling should play on the good side. Points out Day One isn't useful on Day One, but it will be useful later.

#41: Clarifies statement about retractable votes for Boro. Says she didn't say they weren't useful, but just doesn't like people toying with them.

#71: Corrects SpM characterization of her - says she isn't very anti-Day One, just doesn't enjoy the experience on the Day, but thinks they're useful later on. Agrees with Mithalwen that frivolous voting and changing is suspicious. Agrees with Tom that Boro's vote changing is suspicious; compares it to situation with Form in a previous life.

#73: Suggests we all post our animals, but doesn't think we're likely to find clues from the narrations.

#76: Puts forward the idea that she does put forward ideas ( )... Clarifies that Fin has played in one game before. Asks for comments on her suggestion of revealing our animals. Takes issue with SpM classifying Tom as someone who has maintained a presence, since he'd only made one post.

#82: Says SpM's response to her has satisfied her somewhat.

#90: Votes for Boro, referencing the suspicions she voiced in #71. Says she'll have her eye on SpM as well.

Day Two
#140: Says morm really worries her. Voices suspicion because of his unusual behavior, but goes on to say it would be stupid for a wolf-morm to act like that. Also says Caran looks really bad, but doesn't want to voice too much suspicion until she's read through herself, so she's not swayed by public opinion.

#153: Says that if lmp is right that morm is suffering from werewolf-weariness, it might indicate morm is an ordo, as that affliction mainly affects ordos. Disagrees with SpM, who says she was the main protagonist behind Boro's lynching.

#155: Votes for morm, saying she's not entirely sure she'll be back, but says if she does come back she'll look for other suspects.

#164: Skirmish with morm, who had said she seemed to be grasping at any straw to find suspicion. Points out that the aim of the game is to suspect people. Responds to morm that if she twisted SpM's words the Day before, it was unintentional.

#170: Hesitant to voice suspicions on TGWBS, as she's helped get him lynched before only to find he's innocent (I can sympathize ) Still suspicious of morm. Also suspicious of Caran. Says Fea needs to be watched, and Mith's and lmp's lack of substance makes her uneasy. Also warns to watch out for Fin who may be a wolf trying to hide behind helpfulness.

#194: Responds to Mith, who said if she were a wolf she'd kill Sauce. Says Mith could be double-bluffing, or they could both be wolves. Tells SpM the timing of her vote for Boro was because she had to go to sleep.

#198: Says a wolvish SpM would be scary, but not that scary. Says her vote for morm stands, as she thinks an innocent Caran would be helpful to the village.

My thoughts: Her first post seems quite innocent. The only suspicious thing I see is that she was clearly thinking from the wolves' point of view - if I were a wolf, I'd fear the Changeling; even in situations where they're on the wolves' side, they have the potential to mess up their plans. Her suspicion of morm is understandable, as many of us feel he's been acting suspicious, and he was attacking her with rather weak points.

In short, I don't find Lommy all that suspicious. If she's managing not to look suspicious to me, does that mean she must be a wolf?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

My comfort level is high with their innocence:

Caran
Mith
Nogrod

I'm not much worried:

Celuien
Lhuna
Cailín

Grandma, what large ears you have?

Durelin
TGWBS
Lommy
morm
lmp

Who in the world are you? I just don't have any idea:

Tom
Fin

Durelin: Eh. Sorry, but you aren't important enough to warrant my attention.
Lommy: You aren't either.

TGWBS, Morm, LMP: I trust you not.

++LMP

Werewolf fatigue my foot.

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

[b]
Grandma, what large ears you have?

Durelin
TGWBS
Lommy
morm
lmp

TGWBS, Morm, LMP: I trust you not.

++LMP

Werewolf fatigue my foot.

Come come, Feanor. I give you the benefit of the doubt, and this is the best you can do? Pish posh. I hope there's an explanation of this vote and these unsupported accusations somewhere down the line that I haven't read yet, at the very least for entertainment value...

[Caranlondien]

Sorry if I end up double- or triple-posting, but I'm trying to be helpful while I have the time - tomorrow (RL) I'll be travelling, and may not be here for the latter part of the Day.

Concerning Celuien, so far to me, her behavior has been screaming "innocent". In her first post, she didn't even remember there were retractable votes. Either that was a brilliant wolvish ploy, or it was a sign of her innocence. I've been leaning towards the latter. Still, I think she should be watched, as she could be a fiendish wolf. But I would oppose her being lynched toDay.

I still plan to go over TGWBS if I have time, but for now I'll skip him and move on to Cailin. I'm doing this because TGWBS's posts right at the end of yesterDay seemed earnestly rushed. If I were a wolf trying to gain support by saving an innocent, I wouldn't be feeling rushed to get posts in. By no means am I saying this means he is innocent, but I'm trying to put my energy into the most useful areas.

EDIT: cross-posted with Fea

[mormegil]

Let me just say that if I were a wolf nobody would be suspecting me currently. If this sounds concited...fine, so be it. However Caran you miss an important point about Lommy. In her vote for me it seemed mighty strange that in her previous post she implies that I'm innocent, next post which is really close to each other, changes her mind and votes for me with a back door ready for escape and says that she's not sure if she'll be back and yet she's able to post 4 more times. She does a remarkable job at picking the flavor of the day. Boro, SpM and Spawn voiced high suspicion of her and are all dead either by lynching or wolf death.

[Caranlondien]

Cailín
Day One
#8: Jokingly accuses TGWBS

#28: Doesn't think the Changeling will be a threat to the village until later on. Randomly votes for Lhuna.

#69: Points out she is rarely reasonable on Day One. Says the Changeling will only hurt the village in a few hypothetical situations. Makes a few comments about retractable votes. Says she doesn't find Formendacil suspicious.

#70: Says she is not suspicious of Celuien, Spawn, Nogrod, Tom, or Fin.

#81: Says SpM's categorization of the village makes sense, but since the wolves are chosen randomly, and most people seem to be behaving normally, most people just stereotypically belong to the category they're in. Notes that Caran doesn't normally belong in the category she's in.

#100: Gives a run-down of how she's feeling about each member of the village. Says she will probably vote for Caran, Mith, Form, or Nilp.

#102: Votes for Form, noting there is little to go on and she doesn't suspect anyone all that strongly.

Day Two
#141: Says Caran does not strike her as decidedly wolvish. Says Boro's innocence was pretty obvious to her. Defends her switch of vote from Spawn to Form. Inclined to trust SpM. Agrees somewhat with Lommy's points about morm.

#144: Can't find the post TGWBS was referring to (Not sure what she's talking about here). Thinks Caran would be more careful of a wolf.

#161: Wants to know why spawn and morm were suspicious of TGWBS.

#207: Annoyed with Fea's attitude, may vote for her out of sheer annoyance but will try to find a more likely candidate.

#209: Identifies top three lynch candidate. morm she rules out because she refuses to believe a wolf-morm would sink so low. Annoyed with Fea but thinks she's probably an ordo. Doesn't find Caran that suspicious, but votes for her because the village needs to know her identity.

#246: Changes vote to SpM, saving Caran.

My thoughts: She really seems normal to me. I don't know if that's indicative of her being innocent, as she might just be a very skilled wolf. Her original vote for me despite her lack of suspicion of me looks bad, but I can see an innocent doing the same thing in that situation, if she really didn't suspect the other two. So I'm not sure what to think about her.

[Caranlondien]

Tom
Day One
#43: Says no one looks very suspicious yet, casts vote for Boro because of overt emphasis on his innocence.

Day Two
#124: Thinks Form's death may indicate the wolves are comfortable with their position in the village hierarchy. Says Caran needs looking at but doubts the wolves would be so obvious as to kill someone who voted for one of them.

#146: Says he's being swayed by the village's suspicion of Caran. Also suspects morm.

#149: Analyzes SpM, makes some points against him but in the end decides he's probably innocent.

#151: Says looking over SpM's posts, it hit him how little morm has been talking. Theorizes about morm changing his style because of his recent wolvish ancestor's success. Wants to watch him.

#168: Says he has abandoned his big-players conspiracy, thinks SpM is innocent and hasn't had time to look at others. Has to leave soon and will probably be voting for Caran or Spawn.

#174: Votes morm.

My thoughts: His shift to morm does look a little odd after saying he'd probably be voting for Caran or Spawn. He seems to explain it by saying that he didn't know morm wouldn't be returning for the Day. That doesn't really make sense to me, as I didn't want to vote for morm that Day for exactly the same reason - he wouldn't be back to explain himself.

This is little to go on, but it makes me nervous.

[mormegil]

Fea dear,

Will you please explain yourself?

[Caranlondien]

I hunted:
Night 2 - lmp
Night 3 - Nogrod
Night 4 - lmp
Night 5 - tgwbs

Darn you wolves for not killing me right away when I came out as the hunter! I would have taken Nogrod with me...

By the way, why didn't you guys kill me?

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by me

Caran, who did you protect each Night?

An interesting question...

I loved playing in this game, and I loved trying the seer for the first time. It was real fun.

Kath, thanks for lovely modding and narrations.

What I maybe haven't said before, I appreciate Nogrod's valiant last day try. It was only doomed, and ridiculous to me as I knew how things were...

And I'd never have guessed Durelin to be the ranger... I guess she had the same advantage as me; being too suspicious to the wolves to kill or anyone to guess to be the seer, but never getting lynched though. Cheers, Durelin, well-played!

Originally Posted by morm

Fea dear,
Will you please explain yourself?

Second!

[Celuien]

Originally Posted by mormegil

Fea dear,

Will you please explain yourself?

Fourth. In the absence of the space thingy answer, I'm quite confused.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by mormegil

Fea dear,

Will you please explain yourself?

Of course, love.

Basically, in the middle of the game, I realized that I was still trying to move back home from school, my family was about to meet my boyfriend () and my father and brothers were NOT being cool about it, I was about to start at least one new job, I was trying to finish up school work after term was officially over, AND my great grandmother is dying. I couldn't stick around.

You can even ask Kath; I frantically PMed her apologizing and freaking out that I had way too much going on in RL to keep playing. I asked her to kill me and she begged that I manage at least one final post before she killed me off at night so that I wasn't totally non-participatory.

That was my very random and non-backed-up "Y'all should just kill LMP" post.

Then I discovered a spare hour or so in which I decided that I had no inclination for my inevitable death to be wasted. I saw the village trying to kill Morm and I was worried they'd succeed. See, I was very convinced of the innocence of Mithalwen, mormegil, LMP, and Celuien at that point.

Since I didn't want TWO innocents killed in one night, I posted my plan that, should the village be uncertain of the lupinity of the lynchee, they ought to kill me.

Basic plan: avoid wasted deaths of innocents.

I also very sincerely hoped that somebody would figure out (without me saying it and potentially breaking rules because it referred to non-game discussion with the mod) that I wasn't coming back and would know to use my "suicide" as a way to gauge legitimate reactions. I figured out Nogrod that way.

The one post I made that said "Nogrod, I'm so confused" originally read "Kill Nogrod."

Secondary plan: use my inevitable death to spot those trying to capitalize on it.

I freaked a little when I remembered the changeling role and realized that I'd made myself look that way, but before I could tell y'all to kill Noggie and clarify a little (still trying to be discreet enough that my death would be productive), I had to leave and wasn't back for quite a long time; far after the Day ended.

Basically, I was going to die that night regardless and I really wanted somebody to take full advantage of the fact. Sorry it was so confusing but I was trying not to break any rules and I was bound by insane time constraints while doing it.

[Mithalwen]

Hence your decalration of love!!!! And there I was thinking it was all so complicated ..especially when I had to google trekkie stuff and discovered the changeling ref... and since I was never completely up to speed on what the changeling could do exactly I thought there was some cunning plan......