Arwen - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

narfforc · 06-01-2006, 01:53 PM

'And Elves are wondrous fair to look upon', so sayeth Faramir Captain of Gondor. At that point he must not have seen Miss Tyler, I am far from saying she is ugly, but Arwen is not just another elf, she is supposed to be of the likeness of Luthien the most beautiful of the Children of Iluvatar. I am sorry she is just so plain, she is'nt anywhere near being the most beautiful of mankind even, I believe there were better choices than fish-lips Tyler.

Elu Ancalime · 06-01-2006, 03:21 PM

Its a good thing it wasnt for a Silm movie. Who would they choose to be Luthien? Perhaps Kelly Monaco? (A femals who was on dancing with the stars, and apparently has a job in, lets say, a modeling corporation.)
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Brinniel · 06-01-2006, 11:37 PM

Liv may not be the most beautiful of actresses, but clearly she does have some attractive qualities. Otherwise she wouldn't have been cast in the film.

I do think several of the costumes were rather unflattering on her, though. Liv shouldn't wear low necklines- it doesn't look right with her broad shoulders....

Roa_Aoife · 06-02-2006, 09:48 AM

I think some people dislike Liv because they suffer from the anti-fanboy/girl syndrom. This disease is similar to the fanboy/girl syndrom, in that it shows a distinct bias involving a popular figure, however it is different in that the bias is away from, and not towards. People who succumb to this disease are most often the self-labeled "non-conformists" whom, in their attempt to be different, say exactly the opposite of whatever the crowd is saying. I came down with it recently in regards to Orlando Bloom (as has pretty much everyone else around here) but I am slowly recovering from it.

[Rant]
As for Liv Tyler, she is not ugly. Don't be rediculous. She may not be your ideal beauty, but you wouldn't say Average Jane on the street is ugly because she doesn't meet your ideal. Liv is no different. This goes to the people who call Miranda Otto "horse-face" as well. You're being silly. Both women are attractive in their own right, and if you had the chance to meet them, you would fall all over yourself about it.

Maybe they weren't how you pictured the characters, but why does that even matter? I doubt you will find a single person in the world who looks exactly how you would picture the characters. Nor will you ever find someone who is the ideal of beauty, not even just yours. Everyone will have flaws. The only way they could avoid this is to get actual Elves to come play the roles. [/rant]

THE ABOVE RANT IS DIRECTED AT THE GENERAL POPULACE, AND IS NOT MEANT TO BE OFFENSIVE, BUT MERELY STATE A FACT.

Now, I found her acting skills to be top notch. I was never given the impression of a pouting teenager, and I'm curious as to where that came from. The impression I got from her was a sort of "set apart" feeling. It was like she really wasn't apart of the world around her. And, from what I understand, that's what we were supposed to get from her. I also definitely saw her sadness, but it wasn't pouting. It was the sadness of someone who stood to lose something no matter which way the dice fell.

I also thought Hugo Weaving was great in his role, and the only thing that kept me from fully seeing him as Elrond was the "Hobbits are a virus, Mr. Underhill," line that kept running through my head. However, Agent Smith and Elrond are two enitriely different characters, and he played them entirely differently. He was perfect to me. You are all free to disagree now.

Boromir88 · 06-02-2006, 11:08 AM

I agree Roa, a lot of people complained about Diane Kruger playing Helen in Troy...she wasn't beautiful enough, but the bottom line is I don't think any actress would have been the "perfect Helen" that we all imagine when we are told of her encompassing beauty.

And now that I think of it, Diane Kruger is one of the most stunning actresses I have seen so far, she may have been a better Arwen choice...hmm. But I still adore Liv.

Formendacil · 06-02-2006, 12:06 PM

To weigh in with my not-so-humble, unasked-for opinion on this, erhem, "weighty" matter...

I thought that Liv Tyler LOOKED the part of Arwen well enough. From my own experiments (in LEGO, if you can believe that) I'm quite aware of the difficulties of making anyone (or thing) LOOK the part of an immortal, drop-dead gorgeous Elf. It's simply impossible. But she had the dark hair, otherworldly look, and otherwise LOOKED the part well enough to be possibly the best looking Arwen choice.

I'm not so sure that her gowns made me think Elven at all... but her face wasn't a problem.

However, that does not mean that I liked Liv Tyler as Arwen at all. I'm not saying that she can't act- I've not seen her enough to know- I'm saying that the WAY she played Arwen clashed totally with the way I pictured Arwen. This may or may not be the fault of the writers. Quite frankly, Arwen was too adventurous when I thought she shouldn't be (the Ford of Bruinen being the ever-classic example). But, at the same time, she was too demure when I thought that she wouldn't. Arwen would NEVER have gone to the Havens, in my book- Father telling her to or no. And appearing from behind a banner all coquette-ishly... that didn't smack of Arwen either.

And, as others have said, I never got the feeling of 3000 years old from her. Elrond, yes, despite his not looking like the Elrond in my head. Galadriel, yes, despite not acting quite like the Galadriel in my head. Celeborn, yes, what little we saw of him and despite the dissimiliarities with the Celeborn in my head. But Arwen? Not even a hint.

The verdict: Arwen didn't feel like Arwen in the movies. That may be the writers' faults, it may be Liv Tyler's. I would blame both.

Boromir88 · 06-02-2006, 02:11 PM

I never thought I would see the day when two ladies were the ones arguing over Arwen...haha funny, joke, lets slow down and breathe now.

Ok, so seriously, everything aside, I'm sure we all have had experience with theatre, acting, analyzing actors/actresses, looking at movies, our likes and dislikes...etc, and being that it all deals with opinion all of us are right. (All though I'm the only one right when I say Keeanu Reeves is a horrible actor

). But, point is, we all have good reasoning for our opinions, we all here know what we are talking about, therefor no one is wrong, whether someone agrees with you or not. Don't you just love Tolkien because of that?

Texadan · 06-02-2006, 10:41 PM

I seem to remember reading or hearing that Liv Tyler doesn't use computers or surf the internet much, which is a good thing. This reminds me of the time someone posted on the Bronze Posting Board that Amber Benson was fat and she was there lurking and reading posts and had her feelings really hurt. But that was the official BtVS site and this is not official so I suppose the chances of Ms. Tyler being here are remote.

06-01-2006, 01:53 PM	#1
narfforc Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Muddy-earth Posts: 1,297	Wondrous fair to look upon 'And Elves are wondrous fair to look upon', so sayeth Faramir Captain of Gondor. At that point he must not have seen Miss Tyler, I am far from saying she is ugly, but Arwen is not just another elf, she is supposed to be of the likeness of Luthien the most beautiful of the Children of Iluvatar. I am sorry she is just so plain, she is'nt anywhere near being the most beautiful of mankind even, I believe there were better choices than fish-lips Tyler. __________________ [B]THE LORD OF THE GRINS:THE ONE PARODY....A PARODY BETTER THAN THE RINGS OF POWER. Last edited by narfforc; 06-01-2006 at 11:26 PM.

06-01-2006, 03:21 PM	#2
Elu Ancalime Shade of Carn Dûm Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Anador Posts: 476	Its a good thing it wasnt for a Silm movie. Who would they choose to be Luthien? Perhaps Kelly Monaco? (A femals who was on dancing with the stars, and apparently has a job in, lets say, a modeling corporation.) ________ Honda cd250u specifications Last edited by Elu Ancalime; 03-04-2011 at 12:01 AM.

06-01-2006, 11:37 PM	#3
Brinniel Reflection of Darkness Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Polishing the stars. Well, somebody has to do it; they're looking a little bit dull. Posts: 2,983	Liv may not be the most beautiful of actresses, but clearly she does have some attractive qualities. Otherwise she wouldn't have been cast in the film. I do think several of the costumes were rather unflattering on her, though. Liv shouldn't wear low necklines- it doesn't look right with her broad shoulders.... __________________ Nolite te bastardes carborundorum

06-02-2006, 09:48 AM	#4
Roa_Aoife Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Someday, I'll rule all of it. Posts: 1,696	I think some people dislike Liv because they suffer from the anti-fanboy/girl syndrom. This disease is similar to the fanboy/girl syndrom, in that it shows a distinct bias involving a popular figure, however it is different in that the bias is away from, and not towards. People who succumb to this disease are most often the self-labeled "non-conformists" whom, in their attempt to be different, say exactly the opposite of whatever the crowd is saying. I came down with it recently in regards to Orlando Bloom (as has pretty much everyone else around here) but I am slowly recovering from it. [Rant] As for Liv Tyler, she is not ugly. Don't be rediculous. She may not be your ideal beauty, but you wouldn't say Average Jane on the street is ugly because she doesn't meet your ideal. Liv is no different. This goes to the people who call Miranda Otto "horse-face" as well. You're being silly. Both women are attractive in their own right, and if you had the chance to meet them, you would fall all over yourself about it. Maybe they weren't how you pictured the characters, but why does that even matter? I doubt you will find a single person in the world who looks exactly how you would picture the characters. Nor will you ever find someone who is the ideal of beauty, not even just yours. Everyone will have flaws. The only way they could avoid this is to get actual Elves to come play the roles. [/rant] THE ABOVE RANT IS DIRECTED AT THE GENERAL POPULACE, AND IS NOT MEANT TO BE OFFENSIVE, BUT MERELY STATE A FACT. Now, I found her acting skills to be top notch. I was never given the impression of a pouting teenager, and I'm curious as to where that came from. The impression I got from her was a sort of "set apart" feeling. It was like she really wasn't apart of the world around her. And, from what I understand, that's what we were supposed to get from her. I also definitely saw her sadness, but it wasn't pouting. It was the sadness of someone who stood to lose something no matter which way the dice fell. I also thought Hugo Weaving was great in his role, and the only thing that kept me from fully seeing him as Elrond was the "Hobbits are a virus, Mr. Underhill," line that kept running through my head. However, Agent Smith and Elrond are two enitriely different characters, and he played them entirely differently. He was perfect to me. You are all free to disagree now. __________________ We can't all be Roas* when it comes to analysing...* -Lommy I didn't say you're evil, Roa, I said you're exasperating. -Nerwen Last edited by Roa_Aoife; 06-02-2006 at 05:25 PM.

06-02-2006, 11:08 AM	#5
Boromir88 Laconic Loreman Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: USA Posts: 7,521	I agree Roa, a lot of people complained about Diane Kruger playing Helen in Troy...she wasn't beautiful enough, but the bottom line is I don't think any actress would have been the "perfect Helen" that we all imagine when we are told of her encompassing beauty. And now that I think of it, Diane Kruger is one of the most stunning actresses I have seen so far, she may have been a better Arwen choice...hmm. But I still adore Liv. __________________ Fenris Penguin

06-02-2006, 12:06 PM	#6
Formendacil Dead Serious Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Perched on Thangorodrim's towers. Posts: 3,328	To weigh in with my not-so-humble, unasked-for opinion on this, erhem, "weighty" matter... I thought that Liv Tyler LOOKED the part of Arwen well enough. From my own experiments (in LEGO, if you can believe that) I'm quite aware of the difficulties of making anyone (or thing) LOOK the part of an immortal, drop-dead gorgeous Elf. It's simply impossible. But she had the dark hair, otherworldly look, and otherwise LOOKED the part well enough to be possibly the best looking Arwen choice. I'm not so sure that her gowns made me think Elven at all... but her face wasn't a problem. However, that does not mean that I liked Liv Tyler as Arwen at all. I'm not saying that she can't act- I've not seen her enough to know- I'm saying that the WAY she played Arwen clashed totally with the way I pictured Arwen. This may or may not be the fault of the writers. Quite frankly, Arwen was too adventurous when I thought she shouldn't be (the Ford of Bruinen being the ever-classic example). But, at the same time, she was too demure when I thought that she wouldn't. Arwen would NEVER have gone to the Havens, in my book- Father telling her to or no. And appearing from behind a banner all coquette-ishly... that didn't smack of Arwen either. And, as others have said, I never got the feeling of 3000 years old from her. Elrond, yes, despite his not looking like the Elrond in my head. Galadriel, yes, despite not acting quite like the Galadriel in my head. Celeborn, yes, what little we saw of him and despite the dissimiliarities with the Celeborn in my head. But Arwen? Not even a hint. The verdict: Arwen didn't feel like Arwen in the movies. That may be the writers' faults, it may be Liv Tyler's. I would blame both. __________________ I prefer history, true or feigned.

06-02-2006, 02:11 PM	#7
Boromir88 Laconic Loreman Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: USA Posts: 7,521	I never thought I would see the day when two ladies were the ones arguing over Arwen...haha funny, joke, lets slow down and breathe now. Ok, so seriously, everything aside, I'm sure we all have had experience with theatre, acting, analyzing actors/actresses, looking at movies, our likes and dislikes...etc, and being that it all deals with opinion all of us are right. (All though I'm the only one right when I say Keeanu Reeves is a horrible actor ). But, point is, we all have good reasoning for our opinions, we all here know what we are talking about, therefor no one is wrong, whether someone agrees with you or not. Don't you just love Tolkien because of that? __________________ Fenris Penguin

06-02-2006, 10:41 PM	#8
Texadan Animated Skeleton Join Date: May 2006 Location: East Texas Posts: 38	I seem to remember reading or hearing that Liv Tyler doesn't use computers or surf the internet much, which is a good thing. This reminds me of the time someone posted on the Bronze Posting Board that Amber Benson was fat and she was there lurking and reading posts and had her feelings really hurt. But that was the official BtVS site and this is not official so I suppose the chances of Ms. Tyler being here are remote.