LotR2-TTT-Seq17

[alatar]

But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation has come near. Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, and let those who are inside the city depart, and let not those who are out in the country enter it, for these are days of vengeance, to fulfill all that is written. Alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days! For there will be great distress upon the earth and wrath against this people. They will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive among all nations, and Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. Luke 21:20-24


The return of the guy who acts like a king around Rohan has, well, returned. While Aragorn and Brego limp back to Helm’s Deep, they spot the Uruks who are marching to the same place. Note that the Uruks do not have scouts, seemingly, and I guess that they do not fear a cavalry attack. None will bar their way. And what to me is also striking is that they march in such a tight formation, which is interesting as we’re dealing with orcs, as I’ve said before. Also, where were Saruman’s parading grounds where this drilling took place? At least the hillside upon which Aragorn and Brego stand has some actual green grass, a rarity in these parts.

Aragorn rides off into the sunset to some hero music or other, and as he does we see more incredible scenery, for which I cannot praise PJ enough. Those snow-capped mountains are just breathtaking. The 360-degree helicopter shot is cool in that Helm’s Deep is stitched right into the real environment. Aragorn thanks Brego for getting him to Helm’s Deep, funny as both most likely will find a horrible end there.

The structure, some of it life-sized real and some bigature, seems to be more populated then when we were last here. Or it is the camera angle, shot from a low POV, or is everyone excited to see Brego again? Gimli comes out of the crowd, overjoyed over Aragorn’s return and expressing himself like many a guy. Gimli calls Aragorn ‘laddie,’ and just where does that word come from? But this is no time for hugs and kisses. Where’s that other King guy?

Before Aragorn sees the King he runs into a Prince who has nothing nice to say, and seemingly knew that this king would in fact return. Éowyn sees her love returned, and the expression on her face is of both joy and amazement. Within seconds this turns to disbelief and despair as she sees Strider take the Evenstar necklace, not the sign of his ascension, but of his continual love for Arwen, who presumably is singing sailing songs on the shining seashore.

You can feel the tearing going on inside poor Éowyn, and if one wanted to create a psychotic, well, this is the way to do it. Aragorn might have well told her that he loved her then punched her. Miranda Otto plays this scene well, as she makes me feel for her and her sorrow.

Thereafter, now King again Aragorn bursts into that other guy’s chambers bearing really bad news. Why Théoden doesn’t have his own scouts out, I’m not sure, as he’s getting information from a man who’d just taken a bad fall, a cold swim, got kissed by a horse and was nuts enough to stagger back here. Such a man might count the enemy more than twice.

But Théoden will not despair. “Come get some!” He rallies his people, knowing that they may be overwhelmed, but at least they will go down fighting. People in later years may sing of the valiant fall of the Last King. The King does a great job showing his people that all is well and that they will overcome, but that pesky little dwarf just won’t stick to his comical shtick and pours cold water on the King’s head.

These aren’t your father’s orcs.

The new Uruk-hai models, fresh off the Orthanc showroom floor, are equipped to move. Easy on the rations means that they’re not continually stopping at fodder stations when you just have to get your prizes back home. And unlike some other orcs, the Uruk-hai fight in bright sun, drenching rain, dark night and stormy tempests. The standard model comes with thick armor, broad shields and a bad disposition. The elite berserker model is stylishly painted and armed with an upgraded scimitar - great for elvish encounters. And for a nominal additional fee, you can get pikes and catapults and even wall-busting bombs.

Come down to Mauhúr’s Orcs ‘R Us for a test drive today.

You might want to hurry and buy now as there’s a party from Mordor who’s really interested, and so we’re not sure how long these great deals will last.

Théoden assures Gimli that he knows what he’s doing, and I would agree. The King continues to put on a goodly face, but then there’s Aragorn who I guess is adamant about letting everyone know that they’re about to be annihilated. Théoden finally has had enough, and grabs the less wise (though older) king and points out what should have been obvious to a Ranger of many years and battles. You have to like Théoden here. Aragorn continues, and it’s Théoden’s turn to be the realist. He really puts down Gondor, and that’s a bit odd and harsh, but maybe he knows something about Denethor II that we don’t.

The only bad thing here, in retrospect (as I know what’s going to happen next) is we’re setting up the same tension of, “this can’t happen,” and shortly thereafter it does. Théoden states that no help can/will come and that the old alliances are dead. Just guess what will happen then.

The storm comes to Helm’s Deep.

Then it’s back to Wheezy the Ent (“Don’t smoke kids, or you’ll end up like Treebeard!”). The Ents gather at the sundial dingle, and I’m not sure if that rock in the middle will be used to show the passage of time or not. Treebeard rattles off the names of trees, and I guess that he is accounting tribal affiliations as surely these aren’t the names of the Ents.

Thankfully that scene ended quickly enough, but for I proceed, did you notice that the scratch on Merry’s head was red and not brown? Will it become brown later?

Back at Helm’s Deep, the place prepares for the battle. The old, young, women and infirm are moved back to the glittering caves. Aragorn, king yet again, prepares his troops, which I assume are Legolas, Gimli and Brego. Éowyn complains that she’s to be sent to the caves, and unlike in the books, this is seen as some honorable charge. She’s not left to guard the peoples of Meduseld, but I guess to guard the door until the Uruks come to call, which isn’t really as ‘active’ of a role as in the books. And as they are all in desperate straits, wouldn’t it be better for Théoden to activate all able bodies, both men and women? And PJ makes a statement in RotK with Éowyn, and so why not start here?

Éowyn wants to fight with Aragorn, which is cool, though if Éowyn is permitted to unsheathe swords alongside Aragorn at Helm’s Deep, then I want Éomer there too. But then an odd thing happens: Aragorn states that he is powerless to permit Éowyn to fight. This same man will commandeer the Helmingas (or at least Brego) and has been ordering everything and everyone around like he were some King of Men, not some weathered Ranger. Anyway, Éowyn states that it’s not a command that she wishes to follow, but her heart. Why such great heart is denied, I have no clue. This woman wants to fight Uruks beside you, your real love is on the Elf Boat, westward bound, and yet…

We get a view of Gimli’s future abode, and all that I can say it that I hope that the people within clean up the place before they leave - especially those nappies! Soldiers draft the able men and lads for the fight, and it’s hard seeing young boys pulled from the safety of their mothers’ arms. PJ does well here, tugging at the heart. The women comfort each other as their men and boys are guided to their doom.

By the by, did you notice that Éowyn’s hair was pulled back when she spoke with Aragorn, and even had clips (or something) in it, yet when she is in the caves, her hair hangs down, no clips nor styling? That cave air must really make one look terrible, and that must be why all of the peasants are frizzy. Or did Éowyn stop along the way, washing that man out of her hair?

In the armory, the men and boys are armed with the leftovers of war. Aragorn and Gimli again point out the obvious, that these men aren’t soldiers (which, while we’re on the topic, are where? Théoden, in RotK, will lead at least 100 horse on the field , and so either they have no idea that their King is in dire need, or 95% of all soldiers liked Éomer better than the King, and rode off with him, abandoning their Lord, their families and kin. Guess I just have to quit thinking so much and just enjoy the flick.).

Legolas states that the peasants are frightened, and I laughed as I couldn’t help but think, “well, if you’d shut up a bit!?!” The pointy-eared one gives the latest Vegas odds: 300 to 10,000, and worse yet, Legolas has money on the Uruks. Aragorn suddenly begins experiencing trauma from his fall, and starts defending Théoden’s position. “Helm’s Deep is great, the orcs are only coming to steal our corn, we will outlast them here, and no enemy has ever entered the Hornburg as long as one person with one or more arms and a sharp stick were here to defend it.”

Legolas states that they’re all gonna die, and Aragorn, like a child, retorts with, “Oh ya, well then I’m gonna die with them. Nya nya!” Legolas suddenly feels bad, and Gimli, in a great scene, comments that the elf give the man a little space. I like Gimli so much here and I dread how he will be treated later. Not exactly sure what Legolas was going to propose as an alternate. Run? Abandon the people and live to fight another day?

PJ reaches yet again into the same bag. Will Aragorn return again?

I totally agree Theoden is a King but he is too overcome with the despair that he has actually let his people down. Well make up for it with a victory at Helms Deep.
No Aragorn has to take over and convince the King that if they ride out he will die. Theoden gets all excited (god this guy's got a death wish, ugh!!) and they ride out killing and screaming all the way. If you look closly at one of the Rohirrim riders you can see him swing at nothing when they ride down the ramparts. So anyway Gandalf has to show up and save the day as always. Incidently that charge down the hill was very cool.
Ryan

[alatar]

Ryan_Wizard_Prince, welcome and thanks for posting. Think that you jumped ahead a bit, but that's okay.

It seems with Aragorn at one moment he thinks that Helm's Deep is a mistake, but then defends the position that Theoden has taken. As Theoden has about 200 (more or less) soldiers with him at this time, he doesn't have many options, and to ride out and fight the enemy on the plains would be a faster way to get to his fathers.

Thanx alatar,
Yeah I jumped ahead a bit but you know Theidens "poor me" thingy just annoys me. Don't get me wrong I respect Theoden but he needs to get over himself. Aragorn was the only one who made Helms Deep possible if he hadn't stepped up they would've lost. Whew now that that is out of the way. I really do like Rohan they are a sturdy rugged people and will endure . . . or at least until Sauron is gone. hehehehe

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Ryan_Wizard_Prince

Thanx alatar,
Yeah I jumped ahead a bit but you know Theidens "poor me" thingy just annoys me. Don't get me wrong I respect Theoden but he needs to get over himself. Aragorn was the only one who made Helms Deep possible if he hadn't stepped up they would've lost. Whew now that that is out of the way. I really do like Rohan they are a sturdy rugged people and will endure . . . or at least until Sauron is gone. hehehehe

That's cool, as I see from the opposite side. To me, Aragorn has his head in the clouds as there's no way for Theoden to launch any type of offensive, and even if he wanted to request aid from Gondor, help would not arrive in time. So Theoden's simply making the best of a very bad situation, and shows leadership by encouraging his people, unlike Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas. Wasn't that Denethor II's sin in the books, vainly giving up and giving in, thinking of only his own life?

And I don't see how, at this point in the movie, that Aragorn could be taken seriously by the Helmlingas. He's only fought one battle with them, and he went over a cliff at the end of that one. The Rohirrim cannot yet trust this stick-at-not Ranger, and it's not until he proves himself a bit that they might follow his lead and not the orders of their Lord.

Absolutly I agree that the Helilingas have yet to put trust in Aragorn and Co. But there king and Gandalf trust them so shouldn't that be enough?

[Elladan and Elrohir]

This sequence is great, even if played up for drama. Oh well, what do you expect from a movie?

I love the look on Aragorn's face when Theoden ridicules Gondor. Talk about hitting a guy where it hurts. . . . You'll see it again in ROTK when Theoden gives his piece about "Why should we ride to the aid of those who would not ride to ours?"

Theoden may be sensible, but Aragorn is the one who is actually willing to lead. Who organizes the defense? Apparently 'Gorn. Where's Aragorn when the Uruks show up? He's on the wall, giving commands to the (Elven) archers. Where's Theoden? Standing at some good vantage point in the Hornburg, safely away from the action.

(And yes, of course I realize that 1, that's just following the book, and 2, Theoden does eventually show up to fight at the gate. But still...)

Yes but Aragorn is just coming into his right as King and Ruler of Men. This "sequence" is ment to show him just as much as us that he is capable of leading men with honor and dignity.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Elladan and Elrohir

Theoden may be sensible, but Aragorn is the one who is actually willing to lead. Who organizes the defense? Apparently 'Gorn. Where's Aragorn when the Uruks show up? He's on the wall, giving commands to the (Elven) archers. Where's Theoden? Standing at some good vantage point in the Hornburg, safely away from the action.

I would disagree. Theoden is the leader here, realizing, unlike the dreamer Aragorn, that they are in a desperate situation, and if there's bad news, one doesn't shout it to frighten the others.

And though Aragorn does swing a sword a bit, Theoden sets a spear into an Uruk. A King need not fight with a sword to be a great leader. Gandalf, at least in the books, never really gets involved in Third Age combat, and leads from the rear.

Aragorn may come into his own, but PJ hasn't convinced me that he's Kingly material yet.

[Essex]

I think this is how PJ saw it though, with Aragorn being the true leader at the battle for Helm's Deep.

Aragorn was there marshelling the Elvish troops who had turned up. But as the old Rohan bloke takes aim and fires at the first Orc and Aragorn shouts at him to stop, you should see the look on Theoden's face!!! A sort of "who does he think he is" look mingled with a look of compliance - Theoden realises it would be self defeating to argue with aragorn at the time of battle.

But Theoden DOES lead his own troops, and orders the retreat to Aragorn later on I suppose.

My main reasoning behind thinking PJ saw it that Aragorn was the leader in this defence is Theoden's line to Eoywn later that he did not lead the defence of helm's deep himself.

whoops - realised Ive posted to the wrong thread- this happens later - silly me

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Essex

I think this is how PJ saw it though, with Aragorn being the true leader at the battle for Helm's Deep.

Aragorn, to me, seemed the tactical leader - the leader on the ground - while Theoden called the shots from a higher (literally) position. Plus each had command of specific troops. Note that Theoden tells someone to do something, Aragorn just does it. And Theoden does call the retreat, and Aragorn complies (as he does with the whole 'retreat to Helm's Deep dilemma'). I didn't see any problems here.

My main reasoning behind thinking PJ saw it that Aragorn was the leader in this defence is Theoden's line to Eoywn later that he did not lead the defence of helm's deep himself.

whoops - realised Ive posted to the wrong thread- this happens later - silly me

It gets weird. Aragorn does help, but later, in RotK, Theoden seems not to appreciate the help that he himself recognizes. Leaving Eomer out is one thing, but also left out was the bonding between Rohan and Aragorn. Aragorn fights for Theoden, and Gandalf in some way brings help (though not as much as in the books) yet Theoden is reluctant to return the favor, at least early in the movie. As you always say, it's the little things that open the bigger plot holes.

[Elladan and Elrohir]

Well, considering their portrayal of Theoden, it wouldn't surprise me at all that he just doesn't even realize Aragorn's relation to Gondor, at least not till 'Gorn runs through the doors with "Gondor calls for aid!"

[alatar]

Another thing that came to mind is that we really don't see the bond between Eomer and King Theoden. Sure, there's that 'the King stands alone' line, but we don't see these two (to this point) really interacting. What better place to show that Eomer was a 'king's man' all along than at Helm's Deep? Also, we would then see why Eomer would be a worthy successor - not just that he carries a big stick.

But that may have been too much for the audience, and so we have what we have.

[Elladan and Elrohir]

That's absolutely true, alatar, and that's something I think we definitely should have seen at some point. The relationship between Eomer and Theoden is vital to a full portrayal of both their characters, and that element is totally missing in the films.