Why Legolas?

[The Only Real Estel]

Originally Posted by MatthewM

I also disagree with the above statement. This is straying from the topic, but Boromir never turned "heel" or bad. He was just influenced by the Ring. It was the Ring that played on his thoughts. I could go on about this. The scene in the boat is good, seeing as how it is the same way Boromir acted in the book. His eyes were fixed on Frodo, and Pippin notices. It wasn't forced.

True on the "influencing" topic - I don't think too many of us would disagree with you there.

But in film there's a pretty big difference between Boromir's eyes being "fixed" on Frodo & Boromir leaning heavily on the boat sniffing and gasping up a storm. And if Pippin notices his behavior in the books, surely his more obvious behavior in the movies would not have gone unnoticed by all but Frodo. I think that's what Eomer was trying to say there.

Not a scene that bothers me terribly (Galadriel's give-away does more), but I can definitly see where Eomer is coming from.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Boromir did turn bad, because he tried to attack Frodo; and he did turn heel because the marks were scared of him and hopeful that Frodo could escape the danger. TORE explains it: Boromir's eyes should have been fixed on Frodo, but I always pictured him as looking grave and determined here; not as some shivering wretch, like he is depicted in the film.

[The Only Real Estel]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

Boromir did turn bad, because he tried to attack Frodo; and he did turn heel because the marks were scared of him and hopeful that Frodo could escape the danger.

Hmm. I guess when I say he didn't "turn bad," he was just under the influence of the Ring; I mean he didn't turn permanately to the "Dark Side" (mixing movies here, I know ) - like say, Saruman.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Even good people can be bad. Like, you might have been bad yesterday. It's not as drastic as pledging allegiance to Melkor or anything, but it's still being bad.

And confound it! Won't someone answer my question about the Black Gate: Why Legolas?

[The Only Real Estel]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

Even good people can be bad. Like, you might have been bad yesterday. It's not as drastic as pledging allegiance to Melkor or anything, but it's still being bad.

And confound it! Won't someone answer my question about the Black Gate: Why Legolas?

First off: How did you know that about yesterday!?

Seriously though: I think there's a difference between "being bad" & "turning bad." Being bad would seem to be a sort of mistake that happens, while turning bad insinuates turning your back on the known good & choosing to be bad for the foreseeable future. I don't think Boromir chose that.

Of course I'll answer your Legolas question: I haven't a clue.

Jackson wanted someone to do his "Nooooo" line to make it more dramatic, and Legolas was the best one for it because...hmm. Sorry, I can't even make up a stretch for this one.

I doubt there's any significance behind it, though. Jackson probably chose the name "Legolas" out of a hat for the scene for all I know.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Two words which can be used to explain any question about Legolas: Hot stuff.

The only reason. And I know you too well, TORE, to guess that you are bad more often than not.

[Boromir88]

As one of the ultimate Boromir lovers and supporters, Eomer's got a point. He broke his oath of protecting and helping Frodo along the way as long as he remained in the Fellowship. There was no oath binding the Fellowship together for eternity, but there certainly is an expectation to protect and help the Ring-bearer while in the Fellowship...But in a twisted and freaky quirk Boromir does end up helping Frodo.

Umm ya how about Legolas? I'm not Leggy bopper like Lush, but I have to agree that he's in the mirror for show...in fact that's really his only purpose in the movies.

[MatthewM]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

Boromir did turn bad, because he tried to attack Frodo; and he did turn heel because the marks were scared of him and hopeful that Frodo could escape the danger. TORE explains it: Boromir's eyes should have been fixed on Frodo, but I always pictured him as looking grave and determined here; not as some shivering wretch, like he is depicted in the film.

No, that's wrong. He didn't turn "bad". I agree with The Only Real Estel. Someone who turned "bad" is Saruman. Saruman was once working for the good side and turned bad when he started to help Sauron. You saying that Boromir turned "heel" by trying to take the Ring from Frodo is completely false, and you might as well say that Pippin turned "heel" by looking into the Palantir when he knew that he shouldn't. He disobeyed GANDALF for crying out loud! Boromir and Pippin never fought for the side of the enemy. Saruman did. Saruman turned bad, Boromir did not.

Everyone does things they aren't proud of, and we consider them bad. Doesn't make you a bad person!

And to your "shivering wretch" comment- this is directly from The Fellowship of the Ring:

“Merry and Pippin in the middle boat were ill at ease, for Boromir sat muttering to himself, sometimes biting his nails, as if some restlessness or doubt consumed him, sometimes seizing a paddle and driving the boat close behind Aragorn’s. Then Pippin, who sat in the bow looking back, caught a queer gleam in his eye, as he peered forward gazing at Frodo.” (p. 373)

Boromir was muttering to himself and biting his nails . He was also restless. Being restless is when you move around a lot and are a little out of whack. Obviously, the scene in the movie is not too far off from what Tolkien said. Also, Boromir peered at Frodo, he did not make it so known- it could have been only for a little while and only Pippin noticed. I'm sure all 3 boats weren't side by side here. The closest they got was most likely when Boromir in his restlessness paddled behind Aragorn's.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Fair point about Boromir on the boat.

I maintain that the story throughout the first film was leading towards Boromir's turn, though. Even if it was only for a few crucial moments. The events led to Boromir's turning bad at the end. It was a twist. So what if the heel turn didn't last until the end of his career?: look at Ric Flair.

The heel can regret his actions later when he turns back face, just like Boromir did. If you want to get really picky I could change it to say that Boromir displayed heel mannerisms, even though he didn't fully turn heel.

*Sincere apologies to all non-wrestling fans*

[MatthewM]

All your WWF talk brings back memories to when I used to watch it years ago!

In the first film, PJ also makes Boromir's lust for the Ring occur earlier than it really should have- when Frodo drops the Ring at Caradhras and Boromir picks it up and is lured by it. Whereas in the books, it is after the Company enter Lothlorien that the lust kicks in. PJ makes it a bit more apparent.

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

Fair point about Boromir on the boat.

If you want to get really picky I could change it to say that Boromir displayed heel mannerisms, even though he didn't fully turn heel.

We'll settle on that, but I still hold that it was the Ring that influenced Boromir towards "heel mannerisms", and that Boromir himself never turned bad.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Oh, there's no doubt that you're absolutely right there, Matthew. It's just that, the Ring can stand for anything, can't it? I mean, for every bad deed that we commit, there's always (or at least usually) influence there.

It wasn't enough for Tatanka to blame his heel mannerisms on the lure of the Million Dollar Man's cash, now was it? I guess we have to wonder where do we draw the line between being influenced to do bad, and actually turning bad. Because we're all ready to say that Saruman turned bad, but wasn't he heavily influenced?

It's another topic, anyway.

[MatthewM]

Professional Wrestling is different than Tolkien and The Lord of the Rings. Firstly...the "Million Dollar Man" and his cash wasn't nearly as powerful as The One Ring. Not to mention the fact that Professional Wrestling is fake. Of course LotR is fiction, but to be honest I believe LotR is more real than that.

The One Ring can surely stand for anything, but it is all together EVIL. Nothing in it is good. Anything it is used for will eventually be corrupted. To Boromir, the Ring presented itself as good to have because that is what he wanted to use it for- The Good of Gondor and the race of Men. In his quick madness (which passed almost instantly after Frodo had gone) he knew what he did was wrong and he redeemed himself. Saruman is a completely different story. He was influenced, true- but he willingly joined in aiding the Dark Lord, for much time. He could have resisted, being a great wizard and maia, but he didn't. He was given a chance to redeem himself when Gandalf and company talked to him at Orthanc after the destruction of Isengard. He failed to comply, he failed to redeem himself of his actions. He had turned EVIL.