Dueling Wizards Werewolf Suggestion Thread - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

littlemanpoet · 06-26-2006, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

***warning: I'm not probably completely aware how the system works, so I might be doing some mistakes (I played an ord, after all)***
Say there's four wolves. How probable is that one villager gets more than one vote? Depends from the situation, of course, but especially in the beginning, it's very unprobable.
Now, in the stalemate-case the EW makes the decision (right? I'm not sure about this one). Several times during the game s/he thereby has more power over the wolf-kill than the wolves themselves. I think it limits the woves' already weak ability to do any tactics.
Emphasising the voice of the wolves would help the village too. If the kills were totally (or at least almost totally) chosen by the wolves, the villagers could do more analysis on the wolves' identities based on that. That would also balance the sides a bit.
I think the current system doesn't give the wolves enough power to decide their kill themselves.
Am I making any sense with this?

Yes you are.

You see the situation correctly... almost. The werewolves & evil wizard are told by the evil team submod what nominees are up from the werewolves, and then the werewolves either stick with, or change their choice in order to reach a consensus. Failure of consensus means that the evil wizard gets the choice by default.

While there are Wizards, they do have the power to a large extent. Since this is Dueling Wizards Werewolf, I like the power in the Wizards' hands in the early going. It does create a more panicked feeling for ordos, which I also intended. (evil LMP)

There is, however, a Good Wizard who will get to talk to her/his gifteds at Night (through the good team sub-mod), so I still think it evens out. After all, the evil team are just as much in the dark in the early going as the good team.

JennyHallu · 06-26-2006, 10:01 AM

From the wolvish point of view, it is still difficult to reach any kind of consensus because we have no way of learning the reasoning behind the other wolves' desired kills. We're given the list of candidates, look at it, and think "Lommy? Who on earth would want to kill Lommy? And why?" and then vote again for the same candidate we nominated to begin with.

littlemanpoet · 06-26-2006, 07:28 PM

....until the evil wizard is dead. Then it turns back into all the gamesmanship of werewolves cahooting at night.

This is the nature of Dueling Wizards Werewolf. It's one of its core elements. If I change this, it's not dueling wizards werewolf anymore.

The problem, Lommy, with your primary, secondary, tertiary, or point award system is that the werewolves may nominate nine to sixteen different characters, three or four of whom are tied, or maybe less, but more often than not, it still ends up being the evil wizard's choice. Since that's the way it runs in my simpler system, I think I'll stick with simple.

JennyHallu · 06-26-2006, 08:00 PM

I simply wondered if the wolves could provide a one-sentence explanation of why, to accompany their nomination.

Gurthang · 06-26-2006, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JennyHallu

I simply wondered if the wolves could provide a one-sentence explanation of why, to accompany their nomination.

This could possibly work, although, I think the moderator would have to paraphrase each wolves explanation. That way you couldn't guess the other wolves by spelling/grammar, unique word usage, accent(

), etc.

The night would have to be done in two stages then. You'd get each wolves top pick with an explanation. Then you'd have to paraphrase and send all the choices and reasons back to all the wolves, then get the final vote from each wolf. And doing it that way gets you into timezones trouble.

littlemanpoet · 06-27-2006, 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JennyHallu

I simply wondered if the wolves could provide a one-sentence explanation of why, to accompany their nomination.

Oh! I didn't understand the first time. I'm sorry. I think this could work, so long, as Gurthang has implied, as the werewolves honor a need for brevity. (And even if they don't, the evil team sub-mod could create the brevity her/himself.

Roa_Aoife · 06-27-2006, 10:39 AM

Piping in with the EW's point of view- sometimes it depends on the wolves' personalities. They were never stopped from providing explantion to me, some just didn't. Morm launched into whole analysis and players lists which he eventually summed up with two choices. Other wolves just sent me a name.

However, part of my strategy was direct my wolves almost entirely through the game. They couldn't talk to each other, and had only a limited knowledge of what was going on. (Some knew more than others.) I on the other hand had a very good handle on the situation, so I deigned to direct my wolves like a military Sgt directing her squad. Mostly during the night, but sometimes during the day as well. It was my understanding that this was part of the EW role, if I so chose it. That's not saying I ignored my wolves' choices- sometimes I defered to them rather than go with my original.

My point is, if a wolf wants to provide explanation to the EW, let them do it in anyway they want. After that, it's up to the EW if they want to send an explanation or not. It ought to be a strategy choice, not a rule. If we keep making strategies into rules, then it makes no difference who is in what role, or whether that player is good or bad. Challenge may disappear.

So, yeah... I actually had no problem with the way the kill choices happened. (After all, I made a good majority of them anyways.)

littlemanpoet · 06-27-2006, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

So, yeah... I actually had no problem with the way the kill choices happened. (After all, I made a good majority of them anyways.)

I defer to the only Downer who has experience as the EW.

06-26-2006, 10:01 AM	#2
JennyHallu The Pearl, The Lily Maid Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In my luxury Barrow, snuggled up in a pile of satin pillows, eating fresh fruit. Posts: 1,628	From the wolvish point of view, it is still difficult to reach any kind of consensus because we have no way of learning the reasoning behind the other wolves' desired kills. We're given the list of candidates, look at it, and think "Lommy? Who on earth would want to kill Lommy? And why?" and then vote again for the same candidate we nominated to begin with. __________________ <=== Lookee, lookee, lots of IM handles!

06-26-2006, 08:00 PM	#4
JennyHallu The Pearl, The Lily Maid Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In my luxury Barrow, snuggled up in a pile of satin pillows, eating fresh fruit. Posts: 1,628	I simply wondered if the wolves could provide a one-sentence explanation of why, to accompany their nomination. __________________ <=== Lookee, lookee, lots of IM handles!

06-27-2006, 10:39 AM	#7
Roa_Aoife Ghost Prince of Cardolan Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Someday, I'll rule all of it. Posts: 1,696	Piping in with the EW's point of view- sometimes it depends on the wolves' personalities. They were never stopped from providing explantion to me, some just didn't. Morm launched into whole analysis and players lists which he eventually summed up with two choices. Other wolves just sent me a name. However, part of my strategy was direct my wolves almost entirely through the game. They couldn't talk to each other, and had only a limited knowledge of what was going on. (Some knew more than others.) I on the other hand had a very good handle on the situation, so I deigned to direct my wolves like a military Sgt directing her squad. Mostly during the night, but sometimes during the day as well. It was my understanding that this was part of the EW role, if I so chose it. That's not saying I ignored my wolves' choices- sometimes I defered to them rather than go with my original. My point is, if a wolf wants to provide explanation to the EW, let them do it in anyway they want. After that, it's up to the EW if they want to send an explanation or not. It ought to be a strategy choice, not a rule. If we keep making strategies into rules, then it makes no difference who is in what role, or whether that player is good or bad. Challenge may disappear. So, yeah... I actually had no problem with the way the kill choices happened. (After all, I made a good majority of them anyways.) __________________ We can't all be Roas* when it comes to analysing...* -Lommy I didn't say you're evil, Roa, I said you're exasperating. -Nerwen

06-26-2006, 07:28 PM	#3
littlemanpoet Itinerant Songster Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: The Edge of Faerie Posts: 7,066	....until the evil wizard is dead. Then it turns back into all the gamesmanship of werewolves cahooting at night. This is the nature of Dueling Wizards Werewolf. It's one of its core elements. If I change this, it's not dueling wizards werewolf anymore. The problem, Lommy, with your primary, secondary, tertiary, or point award system is that the werewolves may nominate nine to sixteen different characters, three or four of whom are tied, or maybe less, but more often than not, it still ends up being the evil wizard's choice. Since that's the way it runs in my simpler system, I think I'll stick with simple.