WWJ X: Hithlum Zydeco Blues; Hísilómë in Hísimë

[Mithalwen]

Hello...... time for token in character post "Here kitty, kitty, kitty..."

Too hot, too sleepy and too soon to get into analysis and random observations are more my thing so...

Form giving his spiel re day ones seems a little too formulaic... he did it last time we played but just seems maybe a bit contrived. He was innocent then btu know I wonder if he is trying to set up one of those "just x being x" type assumptions. Not saying a huge suspicion .. just something to look at...

As Roa, and Nogrod have pointed out ..day ones can be very productive. The number of Fenris wolves bear that out. Given the unusual day 1 scenario.... with wolves pming privately between themselves as they speak openly to us all and a seer getting their dream.. there may be more stuff to watch out for than usual.

Going to have another read.. then perhaps another post before a few hours of arpeggios and a longer spell online with more to look at....

[Mithalwen]

V quick cos I have 3 inutes left on the library pc...


dun likd Morms plan ... if I get another time slot I will expalin...
Glirdan - I don't know if wolves like music ..their singing leaves a lot to be desired. But cats love music just ask Signor Rossini!

[Mithalwen]

Sorry about the triple post but - seemingly I am talking to myself .... or just to my cats...

This is a small village with so far few posts. I can't help thinking that everyone looking at everyone else is so much more likely to produce results at this stage. Also, speaking personally, given that I don't know that anyone else is innocent, I would prefer to read for myself even if there were hundreds of posts. We don't know that the designated analyst is not trying to put a spin on their interpretation.

Analysis is all very well when it produces some insight but too often what people claim to be analyses are merely summaries which clutter the thread. Without these reports it would be easier for the other players to read what X actually said rather than what Y said X said. Screeds of "analysis" are often used as smoke machines by wolves.

The other factor is that instinct can be as useful as logic and certain people read some people better than others either because they know them very well or becasue they know them little and aren't so bound by prejudice. How to allocate watchers to best advantage? Also some people have an near uncanny ability to spot wolves. If Valier, for example, is innocent and on form the last thing we want to do is cramp her style.

Later in a huge game, there might be a case for dividing the burden of post review, but not here, not now..

[Macalaure]

I'll be off the computer for a while now and cannot promise to be back before the deadline.

Random vote (believe it or not):

++ Nogrod

I really hope to be able to retract and cast a new vote with at least a little reason later.

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Random vote (believe it or not):

I never do. This is one thing upon which I agree with Formen; votes tend not to be random no matter what the voter says.

Nice to see that once again my plan is mere drivel. It does seem a decent idea to me and I can see both advantages and some disadvantages but I am trying to help, unlike some . Kuru asked for more than inane first day role playing and banter and I think I provided some of that as some serious disussion was given, not much but some.

On the other hand, Formendacil seems to be able to carry our conversations away into the ever productive topic of hating first days. Always a lot of good comes from such conversations. Formen you complain about innocents being lynched for specious reasoning, yet you are a catalyst for many of these lynching due to your constant maunderings about day 1. Inevitably you get WW zealots trying to convert you into loving it and day one is spent being utterly unproductive because the conversation is spent around it...now you have me talking about it .

++Glirdan

Call it 'random'

No, his vote stuck out to me and his willingness to jump on the Formen suspicion train was startling.

[Nogrod]

Oh my! How pathetic!

What I mean, let's do something people! There are two grand-scale football games today and I guess many of us will be away from this game to follow them.

I'll start then...

I find quite innocent:

Mith has been her reasonable and cool self. And that speaks in favour of her to my eyes. Sorry Mith, but you tend to play quite nervously when you have something to lose.

I personally am tended to lean towards arguments produced by Mith and Roa on the matter of Morm's plan. But just because I think the plan a bit crooked, I tend to believe him innocent. A wolf would have been much more careful and thought of the plan more before releasing it to actually appear helpful. Even if I believe Morm could pull the double-triple-whatever -bluff, it would seem far too risky to concentrate everyones attention to oneself with a controversial plan...

I have a faint suspicion:

Form seems to be his normal anti-Day1 campaigner. Although I think he has been more talkative and argumentative this time. I like the thing that he is involving himself more in the game. But why be so outspoken in this game?

Roa is reasonable as always, but that's just the scary part in her: she can pull it when she's evil. I always suspect Roa, almost always. I guess there has been one game where I trusted her...

Kuruharan is hard to judge because of the in-role posture that seems to stick. What Kuru actually says seems reasonable enough, but there is so little of it. And the mask? Well wolves love masquarades.

Glirdan's fast jump to foreseeable anti-Form -movement did look pretty bad. Here I agree with Morm. It's not much, but more than nothing.

Macalaure, not because he threw a vote for me, but because he threw a "random vote", underlining it's randomness. That's the way how wolves like to cloud the tracks they might leave by their voting record.


But probably I will be voting someone who actually tries to destroy the Day1's by not participating. Just from pure annoyance. Of course if there is even a half-reasonable case to make when the deadline approaches I will go with that.

And yes: we have Valier in the camp. It would not be a bad idea to just hear who she feels is a wolf and vote for that person. I might opt for that possibility too...

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Oh my! How pathetic!

What I mean, let's do something people! There are two grand-scale football games today and I guess many of us will be away from this game to follow them.

Fie! certainly not the cats however are most intrigued by events in London SW19 and I had to see Mr Agassi for as long as I could bear it, and remember the days when he could "make the sky rain diamonds". Mr Murray..watching that is too traumatic... so I shall be around for a while but yes this is a masochistic game to play if you are of an anxious disposition...

[JennyHallu]

Frankly, I'm most suspicious at the moment of Kuruharan. He's said enough for a presence, but I don't think any of it has been meaningful.

And his bit on "useful" and "not-useful" people...which, exactly, are which? Look at our camp rolls...everyone here, to my mind, falls into the useful category.

[Kitanna]

I have mixed feelings about Formendacil's Day 1 post. He points out what many feel/think which is a little troubling, but I feel he has simply tried to get what will most likely be said out there early so we can concentrate on more important. Maybe I'm wrong in thinking that, but that's was my first reaction to that post. And in finding Formendacil's slightly troubling I also find the rebuttle posts of Nogrod and Roa troubling. Those two, more than anyone else it appears, continually return to commenting and bringing down Form's Day 1 post. I don't know what I find more disturbing, Form intial post that stated what was quite obvious, or Nogrod and Roa's (Nogrod more than Roa) continual thoughts on how useful Day 1 and how Form is in the wrong about it all. It brings about a loose theory in my mind about how this is staged and perhaps Form is a wolf and one of the others is too and they have this all planned for the village. But it's a loose theory and really more of a feeling and not something I would act on. Yet I will keep the thought tucked away in my mind for later use perhaps.

Each person will be watched directly by two people and will be responsible for two. This will break up everybody watching trying to take in all the info and will break it up in more managable pieces. Also people won't slip through the cracks, so to speak. Now it would be imperative for every innocent to view their targets with an open and objective mind. Far too often we fall for the trap of concluding that somebody is a wolf then proving it with any shred of evidence.

I like Morm's idea, but I'm not so sure about using it today or even on Day 2, but perhaps on Day 3. I worry, though, because depending on who is assigned to who a villager may be quieter than usual (whether they're innocent or not) for fear of being trapped in something. If you understand me. Also who would pick which villagers are going to watch which villagers. It could be a very good idea, but there is so much that could go wrong in it. I don't really think it something we should try for a Day or two.

Argh, I need to go lie down for a bit and I'll be back in an hour or so because I need to cast my vote early today.

EDIT: I want to make one point about Glirdan and his vote for Form. It's an early vote which he has explained, fair enough, but I don't really buy the whole random thing he attached to it. A lot of villagers are/were disagreeing with Form and he had called the most attention to himself thusfar, but I'm not so comfortable with how Glirdan jumped on it.

[Roa_Aoife]

And, I'm back.

Kuru asked for more than inane first day role playing and banter and I think I provided some of that as some serious disussion was given, not much but some.

I'll give you that. As far as I've seen, plans never go anywhere but certainly stir up a lot of dissension.

*sigh* Such a quiet village. I hate quiet villages. It's far too easy for a wolf to hide in. At least no one's started on about what the seer ought to be doing. *notices Nogrod hasn't come back yet...* Of course that may change.

The people who haven't shown yet are Eomer and Kitanna. I'm prone to give them a little lenancy given the way the game started. (They may not realize we started on a day phase as opposed to a night phase. )


So, discussion thus far has revolved around Day 1's and their usefulness, and Morm's plan and it's usefulness.

Well, Morm's plan was useful in that it gave us some direction in discussion. Talking abou Day 1's is about as useful as not talking at all, which it seems many people have opted for. Jenny? Valier? One post so far? Where did you go?

I'll be back in a bit with some more.

EDIT: Cross-posted with las two. Nogrod! You're Back!

[Kuruharan]

Who is making the assignments? You?

Ha-Ha! Obviously, he will. Then, we kill him. No, seriously. If we did it, that is how it would work. We’d let him make the assignments, and then we’d kill him to see if he’s honest.

Actually, might not be an entirely bad idea.

My glorious brain has a few things to chew upon.

Primo-I’m hesitant to kill one of the “useful” people because they are…useful. Unfortunately, I’m certain that at least one of them is a wolf.

Segundo-I’m hesitant to kill one of the “non-useful” people because that is the ultimate shot in the dark and you are much more likely to take out an innocent than a guilty.

Tercio-I’m probably going to vote for somebody useful today. I have a feeling my odds might be better.

But then again on the other hand, I might be able to combine both principles into one…Signore Eomer…

[Roa_Aoife]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Roa is reasonable as always, but that's just the scary part in her: she can pull it when she's evil. I always suspect Roa, almost always. I guess there has been one game where I trusted her...

*bats eyes* I love you, too. Was that the game where you were the Mod and knew I was innocent? Or the Game where you were the ranger and I was the seer? Or the game where you were a wolf who figured out that I was another wolf/the EW?

And yes: we have Valier in the camp. It would not be a bad idea to just hear who she feels is a wolf and vote for that person. I might opt for that possibility I will come back in the next hour or three... to respond to people who disagree with me. too...

My experience with Valier says that she needs a Day or two to really get onto the groove of guilty and not guilty. And also, her behavior will get more and more telling as to whether she is guilty or innocent. Be careful- if she's a wolf she can use this power against us. I wouldn't be opposed to testing the theory, later on. Not now.

Moving on, my two big suspects at the moment are Form and Glirdan. Form's rant about Day 1's may have been an attempt to clear the air and move everyone along, but he didn't believe that to be the case. He said in his very first post:

Originally Posted by Form

People will disagree with me....

....I will come back in the next hour or three... to respond to people who disagree with me.

He knew that his statements would be a source of argument and discussion in the village. It could be an innocent rant of someone who's stubborn and fed up, or it could be a clever smoke screen meant to confuse and distract the village. Itend toward the later because of this:

Originally Posted by Form

Well, I being a creature of habit, and habits being what they are... my hatred of Days 1 sort of devoloped into the approved version of Formendacil-in-Werewolf, and, not having anything better to do, I was content to let it be. I am a great respecter of tradition, Werewolf or otherwise, and it would be a shame just to let a tradition die because you all wanted it... and the core reasons for disliking Day 1s remain quite entrenched in my mind.

But if you want to know the REAL reason.... ordo, gifted, or wolf, I like tweaking people's noses. Especially the people like Morm and Roa who are so terribly tweakable...

The first paragraph looks like a rapid back-pedaling from his stance, which had gained him so much attention. I don't like back-pedaling; it's usually a predecessor to dodging and jumping, two very wolfish traits.

And in the sencond. he said himself that it was just to "tweak" people. Here he has stated that he had no purpose in his first post other than to stir up the people who like Day 1's. He openly declared that he was intentionally leading us into the pointless discussion.

Would a wolf intentionally draw so much attention to himself? Possibly, if he is intent on making Day 1's as useless as he claims they are. And now he's already starting to fade out again.


As for Glirdan, it's been said about six times, but his sudden jumping on the Form suspicion seems rather odd, even if he claimed it was random. However, Glirdan does little things like this often when he is innocent. (I've never seen him guilty, so I don't know if he does it then, too.) He has a bad habit being lynched on Day 1 for this sort of thing when he's just an ordo. I want to leave him alone for now.

I have to leave, and I won't be back on by deadline.

++Formendacil

I won't let you lead the village astray. And maybe I'm being nitpicky, but nitpicky is what catches those little details that point out wolves.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I was waiting for the first person to jump on board the case against Glirdan, whose only crime was to set the ball rolling against that pesky curmudgeon Formendacil. It was construed as 'Glirdan is jumping on Form-suspicion'

I don't buy it. I think Mormegil is trying to invent a decent reason for his Day One vote. And let's be honest: Glirdan is about as lynchable as they get. A good idea, but I see it for what it truly is: fangéd skullduggery. String him up!

++MORMEGIL