Heroes: LOTR vs Rocky Balboa

[Bêthberry]

Well, I had thought the genres at least were different. Rocky the First was realism, not fantasy, grounded in specific, particular, exact details like the historical city of Philadelphia and those famous steps at the art gallery. (Celuien, I wouldn't call that figure a statue. I'd agree it is a prop, and a form of Stallone's self-promotion. ) At least, it operated in the realm of realism which most American movies imply. Except for Alien, those top movie heroes operate in the literary genre of realism. (Interestingly, more of the villains come from non-realism--The Wizard of Oz, The Exorcist, Snow White.)

LotR is fairie, is fantasy, is it not? It has its eucatastrophe. I don't think Rocky does because the outcome (at least as I can remember the first movie) was ever seriously in doubt, just made tense and dramatic.

Does this difference of genre change our concept of hero?

[Celuien]

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

Celuien, I wouldn't call that figure a statue. I'd agree it is a prop, and a form of Stallone's self-promotion.

Agreed, and if they ever move it to the Art Museum, I'll be very unhappy. That thing is an ugly prop.

Originally Posted by SPM

But isn't the ennoblement of the humble (in the form of the Hobbits) one of Tolkien's major themes? The substance might be different (in that they are "fighting" for different things) but there is similarity in the process, is there not?

Yes...but I would suggest that the main focus in the movie was not the process of ennoblement as much as the fulfillment of the characters' external goals. For Rocky, getting to the big fight (though I haven't seen the movie for a while, so I may need a refresher). For the LotR, destroying the ring. I'm not sure that the majority of movie audiences were focusing on character growth as the reason for making the characters heroes. And, honestly, I'm not sure of how well character growth was portrayed in the movies, other than in Boromir.

Originally Posted by Bêthberry

Does this difference of genre change our concept of hero?

Maybe. Rocky is more accessible in that there's a chance, however slim, that someone who admires Rocky will have a similar type of chance. In fantasy, that's not a possibility.

[Lalaith]

Why, by all that is heroic, is Atticus Finch not on that list? (A far more Tolkienish figure, at any rate...)

Oh, and I am with Lalwende on this. Why are all the heroes men and all the villains female?

[Lalaith]

I've just gone on the AFI site and I see Mansun did not mention the top three heroes or top three villains.
Atticus does indeed top the list. Phew. I thought the world had gone mad.

(Top three in each case: Atticus Finch, Indiana Jones and James Bond; Hannibal Lecter, Norman Bates and Darth Vader)

Of these,(trying to keep this a Downs-type discussion! ) I would only call Atticus and Darth Vader Tolkienesque characters. James Bond is the least Tolkienesque hero I can imagine.

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Lalaith

Why, by all that is heroic, is Atticus Finch not on that list? (A far more Tolkienish figure, at any rate...)

Oh, and I am with Lalwende on this. Why are all the heroes men and all the villains female?

Well I wasn't at all surprised to see the woman from Fatal Attraction on the list. But to save me veering off into an enormous rant about it, I'd refer anyone to Susan Faludi's Backlash to read her explanation of why that film is deeply offensive.

I'm intrigued though. Where could we find a Darth Vader character in Tolkien's work?

[The 1,000 Reader]

Darth Vader=Awesome warrior dressed in black.

Nazgul(Witch-King)=Awesome warrior(s) dressed in black.

I can see some comparisons between Balboa & Frodo (other than their height!) in each of the films, particulary in Rocky V where Rocky is meant to have been inflicted with permanent brain trauma & Frodo has been left to recover from his Morgul Knife wound & scarred memories for the rest of his life at the end of the LOTR. Both bow out of each film leaving an unforgotten legacy as heroes for the free people.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Perhaps of some interest here: Today (Sep., 8th) the
Rocky statue is being put back at the Philadelphia
Art Museum (permanently) at the bottom of the
steps. And the anti-Soviet Rocky film is rather
embarassing to watch now---with the blatant
propaganda.