The Lord of the Bible?

[mark12_30]

Originally Posted by davem

How are you going discuss the Bible without mentioning religion?

The question is whose religion are we going to discuss-- yours and mine, or Tolkien's? And the Downs taboo has always been, arguing about religion on a personal opinions basis-- I.E. Harry's religion is right and Joe's religion is wrong. That is not discussing Tolkien's religion; that is discussing the poster's religion.

However, there have been many (very civilised) discussions on how religion and spirituality are connected with Tolkien's work and vice versa. We have had some interesting, and very respectful, discussions between (for instance) Christians and Buddhists and Jews and agnostics and atheists. THe thread usually managed to stay focused on the topic at hand, which was the relationship of the religious/spiritual item to Tolkien's work, or vice versa.

Tolkien and everything about him, is and has always been up for discussion on the Downs. Tolkien stated his beliefs quite clearly, and quoted from the scriptures frequently, analyzing his religious viewpoint is not particularly difficult.

Most serious Downs members through the years have been able to maintain cordiality.

[davem]

The question which started this thread was:

Does anyone think Tolkien effectively stole many of his ideas from the Bible? Examples are the Balrog - Satan; Saruman/Grima - Judas; Gandalf the White resurrection; Elrond - Jesus?

Thus the thread is not about Tolkien's religious beliefs, or anyone's personal opinion on his religious beliefs. It is (& I keep trying to drag it back to this) whether Tolkien deliberately & with malice aforethought used Biblical figures 'in disguse' in LotR.

There are only two options: 'Yes, he did (the Plagiarist!) & this is the proof: (fill in the blank). Or: No, there's no evidence for any direct (& precious little for much indirect) correspondences.

Now those who favour response one have to provide evidence for their stance. Those who lean towards response two only have to demonstrate that the responses put forward by 'Group 1' don't stand up. To be able to do that they 'Group 2' have to take a critical approach.

The point being: This thread began with a question - 'Did Tolkien do 'x',' not 'Let's discuss how Tolkien did 'x'.' I think the thread you want is the latter - but you'll have to start that one yourself, not hijack this one.