Waste systems in Middle Earth??? - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Lalwendë · 09-08-2006, 06:32 AM

Farar Stonehewer - use your imagination (or perhaps not

) - how do you think miners in the real world used to address such problems? With a pickaxe and shovel and lots of good earth to dig in around you, well...there you go.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boromir88

"Worst jobs in History.")

Quite literally.

Facetiousness over.

At Hampton Court Palace there is a toilet (bathroom to US folks, we name the room by what's in it, which if it does have a bath in, like it would in most homes, is the bathroom, otherwise it's the WC or toilet or cloakroom (only in Knutsford though)). Back to the Hampton Court Palace Toilet, parentheses having got overly long, it has seats for a group of people to sit side by side. The presumption is that Henry VIII and his courtiers could sit side by side discussing matters of State while 'engaged'. The Romans also had facilities like this.

Child of the 7th Age · 09-08-2006, 08:10 AM

Interesting, Rumil. I've always envisioned Bilbo's bathroom as being a "real" bathroom with facilities for waste disposal as well as for bathing, even if there was perhaps a bathroom and a separate WC.

My reason for thinking this is that the Shire has such an Edwardian tone; Tolkien himself refers to the Shire being Edwardian in his Letters. There are so many Shire references in LotR (directly or as allusions) to trains and umbrellas and such (things that "shouldn't be there) that indoor plumbing does not seem beyond the realm of possibility. In fact, I can not imagine an upper middle class Edwardian household who would not have had an indoor water toilet, probably of the flush variety.

Flush toilets actually go back a good ways. The first flush toilet was made not by the Victorian Thomas Crapper as commonly thought but by Alexander Cummings in 1775. Some 6,000 toilets had already been installed in English homes by 1800. The device became widespread in the mid-19th centurywhen, after a dreadful cholera epidemic, London built a sewer system. Along with the sewer system came the spread of flush toilets. To the extent that I have thought about this (which admittedly isn't much), I have always envisioned Bilbo with one of the indoor WCs rather than plodding across the garden to his outhouse.

Of course, poorer hobbits would have been in a different situation. Sam would likely have frequented an outhouse. Outhouses really aren't that far in our past, and it's not so terrible to use them. My dad grew up in a rough and ready community in the wild reaches of the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. His family had an outhouse, and they were not poor. My granda worked as a supervisor in the mines. My dad remembered with glee playing a trick on a neighbor by moving their outhouse(the wooden structure) to another location in the yard in the middle of the night. Boy, did they get in trouble! I can imagine similar tricks for young hobbit lads.

I can also remember as a kid visiting a friend in the country and using their outhouse. If you're a farmer dealing with horse manure and soil and such, an outhouse isn't so out of place. It's only us modern, rarified city dwellers who get our noses bent out of joint!

09-08-2006, 08:10 AM	#2
Child of the 7th Age Spirit of the Lonely Star Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 5,133	Interesting, Rumil. I've always envisioned Bilbo's bathroom as being a "real" bathroom with facilities for waste disposal as well as for bathing, even if there was perhaps a bathroom and a separate WC. My reason for thinking this is that the Shire has such an Edwardian tone; Tolkien himself refers to the Shire being Edwardian in his Letters. There are so many Shire references in LotR (directly or as allusions) to trains and umbrellas and such (things that "shouldn't be there) that indoor plumbing does not seem beyond the realm of possibility. In fact, I can not imagine an upper middle class Edwardian household who would not have had an indoor water toilet, probably of the flush variety. Flush toilets actually go back a good ways. The first flush toilet was made not by the Victorian Thomas Crapper as commonly thought but by Alexander Cummings in 1775. Some 6,000 toilets had already been installed in English homes by 1800. The device became widespread in the mid-19th centurywhen, after a dreadful cholera epidemic, London built a sewer system. Along with the sewer system came the spread of flush toilets. To the extent that I have thought about this (which admittedly isn't much), I have always envisioned Bilbo with one of the indoor WCs rather than plodding across the garden to his outhouse. Of course, poorer hobbits would have been in a different situation. Sam would likely have frequented an outhouse. Outhouses really aren't that far in our past, and it's not so terrible to use them. My dad grew up in a rough and ready community in the wild reaches of the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. His family had an outhouse, and they were not poor. My granda worked as a supervisor in the mines. My dad remembered with glee playing a trick on a neighbor by moving their outhouse(the wooden structure) to another location in the yard in the middle of the night. Boy, did they get in trouble! I can imagine similar tricks for young hobbit lads. I can also remember as a kid visiting a friend in the country and using their outhouse. If you're a farmer dealing with horse manure and soil and such, an outhouse isn't so out of place. It's only us modern, rarified city dwellers who get our noses bent out of joint! __________________ Multitasking women are never too busy to vote.