WWJ XI: When World's Collide

[Naria]

Naria found herself to be quite busy after she had awoken from her nap. Mac was her main suspect and while listening to the arguments...he still was, maybe even more so. "I have to take my leave now fellow villagers and have to make my vote."

++Macalaure

[Sleepy Ranger]

"I must depart now but before I do I shall vote." He paused as he looked at everyone present. "I shall vote

++ Gil-Galad

Since he has seemed to be a bit edgy lately and out of my four top suspects I believe he is the one I shall go with. Boromir88 seems innocent to me, Macalaur I am unsure of and Nogrod, though suspicious I would rather keep him alive for now." And with that the ranger was on his way.

[Nogrod]

Nogrod came back in as the night was drawing closer. He went straight to the desk and had a beer.

"I've been thinkin 'bout these..." He said slowly. "Man this is hard." He staggered to the chair he had sat on earlier and then came forwards.

"Firstly, I have gone through Kath's words. There are things that make me weary there. But I'm not sure if they are enough. My initial impression of her suspiciousness was greater than my look on her now.

What troubles me?

Seeing wolvery everywhere. In a sense it's good as we need to note even small hints here. But suspecting half the village in the same breath is actually not very helpful. Indeed it's just what wolves would like to do: look helpful without actually being helpful.

"The careful choreography" -stuff still bothers me too. That kind of accusations are easy to throw around and they look good. I just haven't seen any explanation of that one. Surely, if Kath is a wolf (and Lommy & Boro also innocents) it would be perfectly reasonable to cast that kind of doubt over us three. A ranger may deny the nightly kill, so voting is a better way to get rid of the loudmouths.

Originally Posted by Kath #184, addressing Naria

"Oh, and it's nice to see you taking a more active role. While I don't hold with the theory that quiet means evil, I seem to recall you voting rather suddenly and randomly yesterday, so more input would be lovely."

Firstly this has an air of absurdity in it if you recall Kath's own actions on Day1. (Surely, no one can be blamed of having other things to do than discuss here our fate: that is not my point here) But what makes this a bit shady, is that it seems like a point made to generate suspicion. Adding Kath's earlier summary that did just the same and much more powerfully, it kind of looks like she is trying every possibility, with reasons or without to see whether a ball would start to roll - or bandwagon to move. That is wolvish. For them it's basically the same who of the innocents gets kicked out so anything would go - surely they might have preferences too, but still.

So there seems to be a lot of actions that look wolvish to me. But her last response yesterDay for instance was reasonable enough and felt somewhat right.

I don't know... I have to go through some other candidates still."

[Nogrod]

Nogrod opened his eyes after a while.

“I and I ‘ve been thinkin about this Valesse-ent too. She doesn’t look very convincing either.

Her first post. Boro has pointed out the fact that her insistence of the foolishness of that deed from a fellow wolf is at least questionable. But what bothers me too, is the way she talked about Menel in it.

Shaking herself back into focus Valesse went on: "This Valier and Naria are suspect, and another this Menel perhaps, too?

"Menel, on the other branch, is some what bold, a little hasty... though not entirely brash. I do not believe that dice are a means to catching werewolves, but seeing as she has not cast a vote, it could have only been a sick joke in order to get others talking." Frowning even more, Valesse narrowed her giant eyes "And if this was the case, I should hope that your sense of humor improves."

One should note, that there was considerably clear case on Menel already that time – and still saying about Menel “perhaps suspected” as to play it down?

Funny, that later (#237) she even accepts that Menel was in trouble at the time...

"Yes, true, it was mid day, but he was really the only villager with a -real- case against him, and on the first day, amid the random votes and hunches, surely you can come to figure that it would be a detrimental.

And in the end (of the first piece) trying to carefully explain for Menel? Not too openly but enough as to either actually help him or then just to be able to use this “I wouldn’t be so stupid as to defend a fellow lycanthrope” –argument.

Also her last defences are quite odd...

"My experiances with werewolves is very limited and none of my ancestors have been one of their kind. To purposely play such a lycanthrope trick would be rather ambitious of me, then, I'd say. Brrhhmm! Now if your next arguement is that 'my fellow wolves instructed me' the first night, then I must mention that there is no way to prove such a thing. Just as there is no way to disprove it, other than arguing the unpredicatablity of positions on the first day."

First is kinda out of boundaries anyhow and the second somewhat nonsensical: there is always the possibility of a bluff and a double bluff, so there are very few things that can be proved in WW but posthumously.”

Nogrod pulled a little pill from his pocket and swallowed it with some beer he still had in his pint. "So, so... what my lorebooks tell me, is that almost anyone can be made to look bad when one concentrates - even the most innocent may be made to look bad assuming s/he is bluffing, double-bluffing, triple-bluffing...

Nevertheless I see these two ladies most suspicious of those I have really looked at right now and could think of voting either of them. But before, I'll have to do some more thinking. I've a bad feeling that I've not seen all the things I should have seen. You know that nasty nagging feeling that says to you that something is not quite right? If there is a wolf totally outside our search, as Maca kind of suggested it might be, then we might be in trouble unless the Seer has a nose to look at places we others do not."

X-talked with Volo

[Macalaure]

Macalaure was sitting in his dark corner of the room listening to what was being said. Naria's vote made him raise an eyebrow and he collected his thought on this very suspect of his. Then he got up.

"First off, I have to apologise to Naria. I voted her very hastily yesterday and didn't come up with an explanation today. This was not kind of me and I will catch up on this now, though it is late. I was in a hurry to vote and I had three main suspects for reasons I gave before: Diamond18, Sleepy Ranger and Naria herself. The decision for Naria was quick and not much more than a hunch.

Today, Di is no more and Sleepy looks better, and though I have a new suspect in Valesse, you remain up there. The words you spoke today even increased my suspicion of you."

With that, Macalaure took a deep breath, and then continued.

"Naria seems to think everybody suspicious, which isn't after all better than finding nobody suspicious. In fact, it's even worse. Pointing in all directions causes more confusion than not pointing at all. Interestingly, Valesse, Gil-Galad and Kath are least suspicious to you. One of these is my second best suspect, and the other two I don't feel too well about. Hmm...

The reason you give for suspecting me is... suspect, especially since it seems to also be this reason why I'm even your chief suspect. At least you don't give anything else. You said:"

Macalaure browsed in his notes and read aloud.

"

First off...I find you to be one of my top suspects mainly for your banterings where you seem to know a little too much on how werewolved woud/should act f.ex. "having fun" when they kill. I mean sure they might(and most likely do),but who in Arda would come right out and say that...that post sounds like you are bragging and trying to see if you can get away with it.

Now, since when is it considered taboo to speculate on the wolves motivations? You even concede that my point is probably right. Maybe something came over a different way than I intended, it is usually not my way to brag about things.

As I already said, I have nothing against suspicions on me, if there's a good reason behind it. If this truly is your reason, then I don't think it is a good one.

I am probably going to vote for you today, again. I will wait a little more to see what the others will do."

And with these words he went back to his corner. And he waited.

[Kath]

Boro, I’m not sure I ever did put Mac into my suspicion list. To begin with I felt that he could possibly have been involved in some wolf on wolf thing, but then decided that his comments were more innocent sounding. I apologise if I didn’t make that clear, but I find it odd that you picked up on him, as he was mentioned in passing more than specifically. I’ve just noticed you did explain that, but I’ll leave this in anyway.

As to having reasoning behind killing Menel, why can’t a wolf have reasoning? Indeed had a wolf decided to sacrifice a team member to keep suspicion from falling on them they would need good and clear reasoning or their vote would be more seriously looked at.

This ‘plan’ isn’t something I think is concrete. I simply suggested that perhaps some people might be working together, and that if that was the case, some things would make sense. It was all very circumstantial and speculative. My careful choreographing comment pertained to the idea that perhaps the wolves had planned to kill Menel off. It seems unlikely I’ll grant you but it is possible. Yes, it would put them at a disadvantage in terms of numbers, but a possible advantage in terms of a lack of suspicion later. Boro you say ‘do I really think you’d be that stupid?’ and the answer is no. However, you might be that clever. Bluffing has always had it’s place in these villages.

Lommy, I’m not sure what you meant by me being ‘so radically against general opinion’ when I became suspicious of you. My reasoning against you was not as strong as it could have been but I had the most reason to vote for you than anyone else at the time, and I certainly didn’t twist your words. I’m really not sure where you got that, would you mind explaining?

Valesse you voted for me yesterday for my summary being hasty. Now, my votes both have been, but my summary was not. It was short, yes, but it wasn’t rushed. I have learnt that writing a paragraph on every post is never appreciated (not least by me) but I got the points across that I wished to, albeit in a way that seemed to confuse some people.

As to toDay there has been a lot of arguing going on. This spat between Naria and Boro was a bit silly, as I didn’t really see a need for Boro to even answer to what Naria said. I find myself agreeing with Naria on many of the things she has said though, so I might be biased toward her at the moment.

I dislike Boro saying that he is not a wolf as though it were fact. If he is innocent then to him, yes it is a fact, but not to anyone else, and we have no reason to trust his word above anyone else’s right now.

Lommy’s analysis of what happened with Menel pretty much went the opposite way to how I saw the day, and I’m not sure whether that makes her more suspicious or less. She clears Nogrod and Boro and brings up some suspicion on Mac. Her analysis however, was mainly based on votes, something which I often disregard, so I’m still unsure. Oh, and Lommy, I have edginess in my responses?

Nogrod, I know that my comment to Naria might have seemed out of place, but I made no excuses for my behaviour. I voted early because I had not and could be around, had no suspicions and hadn’t heard a word anyone had said. I voted because I was not sure if I would be able to the next Day, and didn’t want to be killed off for something so avoidable as not voting. Naria though said that she would watch the whole day, and seemingly did, and yet couldn’t think of a single reason to vote for someone by the end of the Day. As it happens, that comment was not supposed to raise suspicion but to show gratefulness that she had started to take a more active role, because history has shown us that her family is very effective at times.

Now, that’s dealing with my suspects from yesterDay. ToDay the only person I wish to add to that is Volo. Reading through it seems that he has spoken a lot about history and lorebooks, but as I recall his family haven’t been seen in these parts before. It is possible that he could have gone and read through all the old lorebooks but I’m not sure that is the case, and it is also possible that he has another source of information for these facts, such as fellow wolves.

ToDay though my vote goes to

++BOROMIR

It is possible that I am reacting to his tone and the way he says things, but he is the most suspicious to my mind. His posts are somehow superior and from what I can see he has barely posted toDay, with what he has said being argumentative in nature rather than helpful. To be perfectly honest what I would really like is absolute proof of his role, and bar a dream we have no way of getting that other than lynching.

[Nogrod]

Nogrod opened his left eye, then his right. Kath's word had poured into his head as he had been flying through his thoughts.

"Good remainder about Volo, Kath. As I said earlier, he has been one of those I haven't had time to think more thoroughly. He surely seems to know lots of things nowadays, unlike on Day1. A mate to give the lectures during the Nights might be a good explanation indeed?"

Slowly he got up from the chair to get another pint. "But I would say you have a flaw in your reasoning on Boromir. Just think of the chances of Boro being checked by the Seer. Would he then go and kill off one of his mates on Day1 and really go for the disadvantage, as his role would be revealed anyhow before the end, indeed pretty soon if the wolves won't find our seer? That would be foolhardy and too risky. Someone not believing to be dreamt of might go for the trick, but Boro surely doesn't fit the description... So if you ask me why I tend to trust him, that's one of the main reasons."

Nogrod took a long draught of the pint he had received and looked around the others still sitting in the bar.

"Ya'know brothers and sisters. Six votes and six different candidates. Shall we make it one each or what is the meaning?"

[Boromir88]

'Kath,' Boromir said, 'I don't expect anyone to guarantee my innocence, though there is another way of knowning my innocence besides lynching me, and that is wait until the end of this living hell. And I also don't expect anyone to trust me, I'm just throwing out ideas and possibilities, if you decide to listen and agree so be it, if not so be it. But, you won't be gain any knowledge by lynching me, besides the fact I'm an innocent villager. Take it or leave it, it's all up to you. Sorry if you expect more from me, but I call it as I see it, and somedays I have more to offer than others. Recently I've mostly been concentrating on Valesse, as if what I've interpretted is right, than she is a wolf.'


Boromir then turned to Valesse, 'You said this Valesse.'

Now if your next arguement is that 'my fellow wolves instructed me' the first night, then I must mention that there is no way to prove such a thing. Just as there is no way to disprove it, other than arguing the unpredicatablity of positions on the first day

I wasn't attempting to argue that, nor was I planning to argue that you planned this scenario with wolf buddies. But, it seems here you are suggesting that's what you did. Or at least that's a general plan, with my experience of wolves, is that they like to try to stay as far apart as possible, yet deflect suspicion away from themselves or their partners.

'You say that my argument is more of a 'blanket' I could be mistaking an innocent in this case. In which case I disagree, there is a difference between how the two interact with eachother. As an ordinary innocent, you don't know who is guilty and who isn't. Your guess is as good as any other ordinary villager. If you find someone coming under wolf scrutiny, that you don't particularly think is a wolf, you make an argument as far as why you don't think that way, why you don't think that particular person under scrutiny is wolfish.'

'However, in the wolves case, when they try to deflect suspicion away from one of their own that is being suspected, they defend his/her actions. There is a difference, between defending their actions, and explaining why you don't believe that person is a wolf. What I mean by defending their actions, and is used by the wolves is the 'That's true, but...' phrase. It's like you're agreeing with the individuals doing the scrutinizing, but trying to defelct their suspicions away from your buddy. I'll show you what I mean a little more clearly:

I do not believe that dice are a means to catching werewolves, but seeing as she has not cast a vote, it could have only been a sick joke in order to get others talking."

'See you defended the actions of Menel. You say 'I don't agree with his way of catching wolves, but we shouldn't make too much out of it.' It definitely looks like you are purposefully trying to get suspicion away from Menel, you don't agree with what he's done, but it's probably just him joking. Where an innocent I don't think takes that same approach if they defend someone they don't see as guilty. They stick more with how the person's manner is, or how the person has voted, or whether what they say at least makes sense. They don't defend the actions (or what the person does).'

If that doesn't make a whole lot of sense, it may be a bit confuddled. take this for example, right now I don't find Nogrod all that wolfish looking. I'm not sure that he's innocent, but he doesn't look wolfish. You see I don't defend what Nogrod does, but I just don't think a wolf would act the way he is acting right now, and I could use voting records or is what he says making sense to reach that conflusion, but I don't defend what he decides to do. It's up to Nogrod to defend his own actions if someone decides to start questioning him. Just like it's up to me to defend my own actions if someone starts suspecting me.'

'With that said, I'm convinced...

++Valesse'

Edit:

Cross-posted with Nogrod

[wilwarin538]

Wilwa hadn't really been paying attention to anything that happened that day, she was still thinking about everything that had already happened. But she finally noticed Naria sitting there waiting for a pint. Sadly, by the time she had it ready Naria had left. Well I wasn't of much use today,she thought.

(15 minutes left for those who didn't know)

[Macalaure]

"Well, voting for Naria now does not make terrible lot of sense. I hoped someone would go for her, but you can't have anything. My other two suspects right now are Valesse and Gil-Galad. I am voting for Gil-Galad, because if I am wrong, then an innocent Gil-Galad is less of a loss than an innocent Valesse. He's just not giving a lot of input.

++Gil-Galad."

[Valesse]

"Ironically what you said made perfect sense to me, finally, which might explain why all of my reasons did not make a bit of it." the tree chuckled "How amusing."

"First, I'm going to reply to Kath, though, before I forget what she said. I was not under the impression that your summary was hasty, if that is what I said it was only because it's in my idiom. hmmhmm something some of us are forgetting. I was under the impression that your summary was skewed... specifically- because it's only natural to notice what is yours- the bit about me. What you had summarized was completely backwards, and therefore I believe it would only be logical for someone to find that behavior suspicious."

"Now, Daleman." Valesse turned back to Boromir "We are not similar. We have very different personalities, and therefore react and respond differently. Mind you consider diction is not a constant variable in all villagers."

The ent was now quite tired "Now since I have been doing a great deal of defending myself" she eyed Boromir, somewhat amused "I have done very little work in figuring who is what. I will either be dead by tonight or tomorrow, anyways, considering the village's opinion of me, but I do ask that I not be made into a floor. That said I'm forced because of time to vote once more for

++ KATH."

[Nogrod]

Nogrod came back from the lavatory and took his pint from the desk, nodding to Wilva.

"Well... I guess we are reaching an agreement here? Kath's speech made me a bit more relaxed with her - even though I think some of her arguments are not good. So that would leave Valesse to be my choice toDay. I've argued the case already and think that Botromir has some good points on her as well.

But however we succeed toDay, I really suggest the village should look at Volo a bit more closely tomorrow to see whether this increase in knowledge is real or only an impression (that it is at least on my side right now)."

Nogrod draught what was left of his pint.

++ Valesse

He turned to Maca and said to him. "I agree with you about the innocence stuff between Gil and Valesse, but Gil looks more confused than guilty. Those would have been overtly bold moves from a wolf, I mean, the things he said and did toDay. Not like people from his family would do. So there is suspicion here at the first place. Hopefully we get it right this time."

EDIT: X-talked with Valesse

[Valesse]

Valesse reached inside of the inn one last time and fritted the last of the apple cider. Pleased, she stood tall and considered her life very... fruitful.

[Glirdan]

Everyone please stop voting. There is a tie. In this case, the one who got to that number first will die. In this case, it is Valesse. I shall have the death up shortly.

Edit - My bad, no tie.